.177 hunting

ribbonstone - 8/26/2006  7:18 AM

Given a pellet with enough power to penetrate the critter in question, then it's a matter of having the shooter place the pellet so that it intersects viatal parts on it's trip through.  Don't do that, and it makes little difference which caliber pellet inpacts.   Given a powerful enough airgun for the job at hand, getting the pellet delivered to the right spot is  key.

 .177's will have more range limitations and are more dependent on finding a pellet that retains it's velocity well. High BC pellets also tend to be high penetration pellets...if it has the length/weight/point shape to penetrate air well, they tend to penetrate game well.  Don't get caught up in only that; a nice fast high BC pellet that shoots less accurately isn't really going to help.
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Word about accuracy.
Better to do final testing at the range you expect for most of your hunting shots.  Waht shoots best at 15yards may not be the best at 40yards.  Seems like it should be proportional (40yards being twice the size of 20yard groups, etc.) but it just doesn't seem to work out that way.

BC is a big part of having a pellet with enough power to penetrate the critter in question and in my view, that is where "power" in air rifles really matters -not in "shock value" but in the ability of the pellet to reach vitals and pierce them, thus taking them out of commission.

I disagree STRONGLY with the assertion that .177 will have more range limitations.  In mid-magnum and magnum piston rifles of the same power, .177 will shoot flatter than the larger calibers will.  Thus, it will have a longer point-blank range.  That may not matter much if all of your shots are under 40 yards, but it can make a difference if you are shooting in the 40 to 50 yard range.

Nice, fast high BC pellets that shoot less accurately than another choice can indeed help, and help tremendeously.  

Case in point:  In my wife's Shadow, Kodiaks are among the most accurate pellets in terms of group size.  They do not, however, shoot anywhere near as fast or flat as Copperheads do.  While the Kodiaks are more accurate ON THE RANGE, in the field, the Copperheads are accurate enough out of her rifle to allow reliable hits to the KZ of a valley quail out to 50 yards.  Those hits are also easier to make in the field, because range estimation is much less critical due to the extended point-blank range.  Sure, if we shot 5 or 10 shot groups into quail at 40 yards, the Kodiaks in her gun would make the tightest ones.  But we don't shoot 5 shots into a single quail.  We shoot a single shot into a single quail.

Am I saying that accuracy doesn't matter?  Of course not.  But there really is such a thing in hunting as accurate enough -at least in the hunting that I do.  And, in the hunting that I do, there are situations where more accuracy than enough isn't going to help as much as a flatter trajectory and more downrange thump will.

Where accuracy is concerned for me, I test for acceptable precision at 50 yards.  A pellet that groups great at 15 might not do so slick at 50 and if BC is totally ignored, it probably won't.  So far, the pellets that have been accurate enough at 50 yards for the shooting that I do have proved satisfactory for closer ranges, too.  I don't test for the average scenario, as most of the game that I shoot with an air rifle is closer to 30 yards from my rifle than 50, most of the time.  I test for the worst-case scenario at the maximum range that I am comfortable shooting small edible game at with an air rifle, and that's 50 yards.

It isn't just placement.  It's placement AND penetration, and finding the ideal compromise that offers enough of each to get the job done in a quick, humane way.

JP
http://www.uplandhunter.net

[ribbonstone]

Agree 100% on most of the items presented.  

A pellet that groups well at 50yards  has always grouped well at shorter ranges...but the reverse certainly isn't true.  Test your hunting pellets at the ranges you expect to shoot. 40 or 50yards for most folks, but if using a lower powered rifle and will limit your shots to 25yrads, the test at that range....if your air rifle is a super-powered PCP, then might test at whatever you consider max. range.

Becasue of the design of airgun pellets, there are limitations in BC.  Boattails work well at getting BC up for low vel. projectiles (and just becasue they are powered by air makes no difference), but being pellets, we can't work with that end...can only use length and nose shape, both of which tend to increase weight. Heavy weight pellets tend to a more arched trajectory, making range estimation more and more important.

That's where the .177's main advantage lies...it can shoot flatter, whih makes range estimation less crucial.

But vel. still rears it's ugly head...can't lose too much vel. with a heavier/better BC pellet and still maintain a trajectory advantage.

Quick estimations (someone can run them and get the last decimal place if they care to).

Toss a lower BC (something like .0150) pellet out at 950fps...zero it for 30yards...and at 50yards may be 2.2" low.  Now a higher BC pellet (something like .0225) zeroed at 30uyards will be about 2.2" low when launched at something like 865fps.  Agree, as range extends past that, the higher BC pellets shows more of an advantage, but for most of us 50yards is a good sensible hunting limit.

So in the above example, as long as  going from .0150 to .0225 doesn't cost more than 85FPS, it helps at normal huntiing distances.

(Yah...can zero for 50yards on both, and deal with the differnce in height in the middle areas...and that has a good bit to do with the height of the scope over the bore.  But that usually is more difficult for most of us...we hate holding under things..  The height of the scope over the bore has a good bit of control over all these trajectroy estimations...and as a group, air gunners seem to like big lens scopes jacketed up in the air, so the traditional 1.5" bore/scope distance doesn't apply).

[daved]

Great posts, guys, lots of "things that make you go hmmm, I hadn't thought of that".  The most obvious, of course, hunting is NOT target shooting.  I think you zeroed in on the main thing that trips us newbies up- we get locked in to the target mind set of super tight 5 or 10 shot groups at X range, where hunting is (hopefully!) one shot, one kill.  So thanks.

Dave

daved - 8/25/2006  8:21 PM

Hey, Bob,

Why are you only considering RWS rifles?  I'd love a 52 myself, or even a 48.  But like you, the check book won out.  However, I ended up buying a Gamo CFX.  Gotta tell you, I'm really happy with the choice.  Yes, the trigger moderately sucks, but $30 gets you a GTX trigger from CDT, and the difference defies description.  I know if you shop around, you can find one for about $180, don't know how that compares to the 34.  Anyway, just a thought.  Good luck, and keep shooting.

Dave

I'm a research nut.....and admittedly sometimes that causes more troubles than not.  Anyway, in that research I found more negative reviews for the CFX than for the 34.  Neither had a lot of negative feedback, but the 34 had less.  That said, I did hold the CFX at Cabela's and it was comfy.  I actually liked the length of pull slightly more than the RWS.  I also like the factory sights on the CFX a smidge more than the 34, even though I plan on mounting my scope.  But, alas, I am addicted to wood.  Just some wierd cro-magnon man thing in me that has a hard time accepting synthetic stocks.  

I just got back from the first short session with the 34 and really like it.  It's my first real, non-defective, adult air rifle and I think that this may be the start of an addiction.  So, you never know.  There could yet be a CFX in my future.  I can see where the weight advantage of that synthetic stock would be nice in the hunting field.

[ribbonstone]

Guess I'll add a little fuel.

Most of my vermin control is at 20-25 yards...which happens to be the distance from my back door to the wooden fence just infront of the nearest pecan tree.  Squirrels tend to love pecans...but also seem to love to gnaw on the garage roof flashing. ..and like to run along the top of the fence to get to and from whereever they are going.

My choice?

Single stroke pneumatic .177 match rifle...605fps at the muzzle...normally with 8gr. flat nosed pellets. Have taken the match apature sights off and put an older 6-18X Simmons on, usually kept at 6X for the field of view.  Distance is right, accurracy is certainly right.  Not an abundance of power, but being able to zip that pellet in exactly the right spot seems to do the job just fine (and quietly).

Don't die any deader when hit with a faster pellet gun or with a larger caliber one.

(In case you wonder.  Are only a couple of spots along the fence where it is safe to shoot...places with tree trunks as back-up for a possible miss (or pellet that exits.  Even out of season, when doing damage to property, are pests.)

Test

For most of us, we don't choose the pellet, the pellet chooses us.