whisper scope frustrations

I posted a week ago in the "shop" area about possibly making some scope rings for my whisper. I looked around at work, and I needed the correct tool to make a dovetail, and our shop doesn't have one. I found one through our usual dealer, but its over $60 bucks. I didn't think I wanted that investment, but it looks like that will be the only way I can get a decent mount now.

to back up a bit, I pulled the riser off because I wanted the scope much lower (it just sits way too high for me to be comfortable) and I wanted to use my crosman scope. its not a special scope or anything, but it was true and I liked it. the scope that came with the whisper never did get completely into focus no matter what setting it was on, and the stock mount won't let me get it close enough to my face to be usefull.

now recently I went looking for a mount that will let me mount the scope directly to the dovetail. now that I have had to return three different sets of rings, all from different retailers, my frustration is at an all time high.

the first set came from gander mountain, a b-square model that was supposed to fit "all air gun models". it didn't come close to the right dovetail size so I returned it.

I then went to capra's, a local outdoors store, and couldn't even get the guy to take me seriously when he realized what I had was a pellet gun. then after paying four times what I could have paid online for the same one piece mount, that was also marked as 11 MM, I find out that didn't come close either. it was another b-square model, and it was deceptively labeled. it said, and I quote, "fits 11 mm (3/8ths) dovetails". well any machinist worth his caliper knows that 3/8ths isn't even close to 11 mm. the decimal equivalent of 3/8th's is .375, and 11 mm is .43307. that's a difference of almost a 1/16th of an inch. there was a big gap in the clamping there again.

So I ordered a set from Natchez, and that was advertised as 11 mm, and after getting completely ripped off for shipping ($12 to mail a set of scope rings??? the cost to send them back was only $3! ) I got them in the mail today and it turned out to be another bad b-square item. the mounts to the dovetail won't even seat flush - even when they aren't on the dovetail! the edges are all rounded off, and its way too small. after 3 bad b square models in a row I'll never buy their garbage again.

I am frustrated out of my mind and can't trust anyone around my area to help me with this.

can anyone give me a link to a decent retailer than can give me a correct scope mount for a whisper?

-Mark

Why not just buy another scope and use the Gamo mount that came with the gun?  I've removed the riser from my boy's Whisper, dropped the mount down & mounted it to the receiver's dovetails, then put a Centerpoint 4-16X40 scope from Walmart on the gun and all is well.  Total cost ~ $75, $70 for the scope & maybe $5 for a new bottle of Loctite 242.  I'm sure you've already spent that much or more in gas, time, shipping and return shipping.

When are you going to mount the Centerpoint?  Do you plan on removing the aluminum riser first?  The riser on my boy's gun just couldn't handle the force and the pin stop was starting to egg severely.  I'll remove the riser on my CFX when it arrives as well as drop in a GRTIII.

to answer your first question, the riser isn't just a riser, its also a dovetail size reducer. the gamo dovetail is 11.5 MM (.453) at the rifle itself and the riser reduces the dovetail size to approx. 3/8 (.375). this is over a 1/16 difference.

the one will not fit accurately on the other, and the only thing that would save it from flying off would be the stop pin.

the problem is every scope mount I have seen by B-square so far hasn't even come close to the size it is advertising, and none of the mounts will flush up, even when it isn't on the rifle. if it doesn't sit flush, its not clamping correctly or securely.

-Mark

Are you putting a mic to these for real measurements?  I just took a mic to the top of the riser I removed from our Gamo Whisper and it measures .431" which is 10.95mm.... close enough to 11mm for me.  Trying to mic the rail on the rifle was a bit more challenging due to the scope being in the way, but I'd have to say it does measure more than expected.  As you said it seems top be closer to 11.5mm.  But still, the factory Gamo scope mount seems to be holding put mounted directly to the gun without the riser.

mine measures precisely 11.5 at the dovetail with my caliper, without anything in the way. we have to have our calipers calibrated every three months (at my work) by an outside source to maintain our ISO status, so I trust the measurements. mics, on the other hand, are used just for material thickness and calibrated at the same interval. vernier calipers we don't bother using anymore, since they are just an eyeball tool anyway.

but what makes this so frustrating is I can't seem to find any decent mounts that mate properly. the leopold on my dads browning mates perfectly flush when its tightened, but everything I have been finding near the size I need is always cock-eyed....(I can't find a 11.5 leopold one piece mount for an airgun).....I am used to precision in everything I make and its irritating that I can't find anyone that can get a simple dovetail clamp right.

I even saw one cheesy brand that said if you just flip the bar over it can fit the next sizes up. the amount of slop space in those must be insane.

if anyone can recommend a reputable mount through a good retailer I'd be forever grateful.

-Mark

You should seriously buy that tool part you need ($60 or whatever) and just make your own.  Tools are always a good investment and I'm sure you'll wind up using it again anyway.  Maybe you can post your results up on this site, if you wind up making one, then if other people like it you could resell them.  Maybe you could team up with Charlie and sell them through his website.  Custom adjustable Gamo dovetail scope mounts sound like something that I'd buy

[Machinist]

Mark:
Do you have access to a cutter grinder like a Cincinnati Monoset? If so, just make a dovetail cutter by modifying a 3/8" (4) flute end mill. If not, do you have access to a manual precision surface grinder with a magnetic chuck? If so, just mount the aforementioned end mill in a square 5C collet fixture or a 5C indexable spin jig (the spin jig makes circle grinding much less tedious).
The "Machinery's  Handbook" gives all the angles. If you don't have the "Machinery's Handbook", the 28th edition is on sale through Enco for $67.99
Let's make the mount you want.

Mike

I'd love to make one guys, I really would. I am frustrated out of my mind right now. I tried just putting the gamo one piece on there and the fit is horrendous. its not even close to looking right.

Machinist, I currently run a 3 axis, so I am a bit more limited. its a hein 4 headed with a 62x102 table, mainly used for "cookie" cutting. before this I ran vector waterjet (3 and 5axis) and before that a few other oddities. My idea was to machine out the base, and maybe use the existing scope ring tops just to save a little machining time and keep the cost down.

I'll probably buy the tool. when I get to work monday I'll see what I can draw up. I'll post a drawing too if I can.

if anyone has other suggestions, please let me know.

-Mark