OK, what am I doing wrong?

[sirgabe]

So I got my new Condor .22 on Thursday and I just now took it to the range.  Tried it at 50 yards and 100 yards with all kinds of pellets: predators, kodiacs, ram jets, benjamin diabolos, crow magnums, and one other type I cant remember right now.... I probably shot over 250 pellets in all.

I didnt see "super" great results at 50 yards and got some WTF results at 100 yards.  At 50 yards I got 25 shots into 2.5" wide by 1.75" tall.  At 100 yards I got 5 out of 15 into a big 12" Shoot n See target.  I tried everywhere from 5 setting up to max power.  I've read alot of guys get 1" groups at 50 and some guys 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards......  I dont have a chrony yet, so I dont know how fast anything was going.

I've read a lot of the other posts on here, but I guess I need some super beginners help here.  I've got my TurboTuned .22 CFX I like out to 35 yards, but I'd like to setup the Condor for 75 or 100 yards.

The speed setting on the rifle makes testing difficult.... Anybody give me some good places to start at?  Am I expecting too much from a stock Condor?  Are there some must-do's to the Condor before it shoots well?

Thanks guys, I'm brand new to PCP's.

[DEALERMAN]

Most of the time, not all however, it ends up being an issue related to the scope or mount. What type of scope and mounts do you have installed? I will share some basic we recommend to our customers:

1. Proper scope installation is #1 priority. Check all mount and set screws. Depending on your scope, when you take off the turret caps, are there two very tiny Phillips screws seen? If so check them to see if they are tight. Make sure you use the proper tolls and do not over tighten.
2. Start at a distance of 20 or 30 yards to first determine best pellet performance. Key here is to use a consistent setting (6 should be good) for testing. I would recommend heavy lead such as Kodiak Heavies, EJ's, or other. (Condors like heavy lead)For now forget about velocity and power, let's focus on accuracy only.
3  Test with a fresh tank fill for each pellet type, test each style of pellet by shooting say 20 - 25 rounds at a set distances of say 20 or 30 yds. Are you starting from a solid bench rest?
4. Now the basics, you need to learn to always place your cheek at the exact same point (we called this weld point in the service) your head position is often not placed consistently and this causes incorrect alignment between your scoping eye, the reticle and the target causing poor shot placement. Practice and teach yourself to always place your cheek in the same identical fashion, after a few thousand times, it will become second nature and automatic.
5. The other disciplines are breathing control and trigger control; again both of these are learned actions.
6. Last if doing some basic results in continued poor shot placement, time to perform some controlled testing which requires a sled bed or other comparable unit to lock down the rifle and mitigate the human factor. This then is strictly a mechanical testing process to eliminate the obvious culprits.

Hope something here can help you to resolve the performance issue.

[daved]

First things first, Gabe :-).  Don't start at 50 yards with any air rifle.  If you're used to shooting the CFX at 35, start there with the Condor.  I'm deadly with my Talons out to 40 yards, but I just haven't practiced much at longer ranges.  So get comfortable first at a range you know you can shoot at.

Next, I'm going to disagree with Kevin here.  Get that chrony!  If you're going to get the most from a Talon or Condor, you just about have to have one.  Most of the Condors are set hot from the factory, so chances are good that everything you're shooting is at least close to supersonic.  Of the pellets you listed, I know the Kodiaks will still give good accuracy at around 1000 fps, Crow Mags suck at over 800 fps and more than 30 yards, the others I don't know.  My Talons do best with Kodiaks and Eun Jins in either caliber, and I have a custom valve for one that easily lets me duplicate Condor power.

Forget the so called Power Wheel.  Real power adjustment is at the top hat, I don't know what the factory setting is, but I believe the suggested starting point is around .090" gap.  The power wheel is for fine tuning, and you want to adjust it for a consistent hammer strike.  Again, you need a chronograph to dial it in.  Not positive, but 6 or 7 is probably a good place to start.

Just because it's a PCP doesn't mean it doesn't need a break in period.  Also, watch your fill pressure.  The new Condor valve is supposed to have solved the 3000 psi fill problem, but most of these guns still do better at less than a 3K fill.  IIRC, the later Condors seem to do better at 28-2900 psi.

Finally, you need to get honest with yourself.  Are YOU capable of shooting 1/2" groups at 50 yards?  I'm not sure I can, and I shoot a lot and have a great deal of confidence in both myself and my guns.  Don't know if you've found the Talon forum yet or not, there's tons of good info there, here's the link:  http://talonairgun.com/forum/  Give it some time, and if you have any other questions, feel free to email me directly.  Good luck.

Dave

[tat2dman]

Dave,Ya sure know dem AF guns!Been thinkin I might need 1,can`t decide on model tho...I like the power of the condor,but i really like the compact sig. of the ss,can parts b purchased to have a duel set-up rig?

[daved]

Hey, Barry, I think the best bang for the buck is the Talon SS.  I have 2, with a 12" .177 barrel for each, a 12" .22 barrel, and a 24" .22 barrel.  Two tanks, one with a standard Talon valve, one with a custom valve that's better than the Condors.  My second SS came with a CO2 adapter and tank, haven't even tried it yet.  All the different parts and pieces can be swapped around, and with what I have on hand, I can go from very quiet and tons of 6 fpe shots to not so quiet but lots of power, 40-50 fpe is easy.  A stock Talon valve with a 24" barrel can easily make 40+ fpe and still give a decent (30-40) shot count.  And accuracy like you wouldn't believe.  I did a lot of research and thinking before I got my first SS, unless they come out with some heavier .22 pellets, the extra power the Condor is capable of is wasted.  They claim 62 fpe from the Condor, that's about 1150 fps with .22 Kodiaks.  I've found that the accuracy of Kodiaks starts falling off at much over 1000 fps.  If you can't hit it, the power is useless :-).  Shot a couple of ground squirrels the other day with my 12" .177 barrel.  Both about 35 yards, both head shots, the first one I was holding on it's left eye and that's where the pellet hit.  10.6 gr. Barracuda Match at about 900 fps.  Improvised rest on both.  BTW, did I mention that I really like the Talon SS :-)?  Later.

Dave

[DanoInTx]

Yuppems, I second everything Dave said.  TalonSS with a 24" .22 barrel, power adjuster at 10 and never adjusted afterwards, power adjustment is in the tophat....need a chrony or you are wasting your time.  Kodiaks much over 950 and the groups start opening up, never shot Eui Jins, and anything else is pretty much too light.  Raw FPS means absolutely NOTHING if you never hit what you're aiming at...1000FPE with a pellet that hits the tree instead of the squirrel wont work, unless you're hunting trees:)  My Career 707 will launch pellets supersonic all day long, but I never shoot it that hot....near or beyond the sound barrier with a diablo pellet will not be accurate, the design is for subsonic shooting.  

Fill the gun to about 2900, set the power wheel to 10, shoot across the chrony.  If you are beyond 950 to 1000fps, loosen the tophat set screws, turn the top hat in (clockwise) till you have maybe a .050" gap, then start shooting over the chrony, adjusting maybe 1/16 of a turn out (counter clockwise) taking a shot between adjustments, till you are around 950fps with a 24" barrel...do NOT tighten the set screws with each adjustment, they will put dents in your valve stem.  When you get it to that 950 fps, loosely tighten the set screws.  Fill back to 2900, start a chrony string and see how it looks, should stay around 950 for quite awhile, maybe losing a couple FPS between shots.  Then tighten the set screws the rest of the way...again, be careful, if it's a Condor valve you can crush the valve stem if you tighten too much.  Go shoot some groups, I can almost say for certain they will look better, assuming there are no other issues with the gun.  The barrel set screws are notorious for coming loose and creating wide groups, breach o-rings tend to wear and leak creating loose groups (get some 90 dura o-rings, there's a guy on the Talon forum that sells them) and of course a bad scope it a bad scope.  I watched a kid knock a golfball around with a Condor last month from close to 70 yards consistantly...it can be done.  Good luck and happy shooting!

[sirgabe]

Thanks Guys.  I played with it some more at the 10 setting and its still not doing so hot.  One thing I didnt know I would need was the accessory rail to raise up the scope mounts a bit - I think this might be causing me to not look through the scope right all the time because its somewhat uncomfortable.  I checked all the mounts and everything is tight as can be.  Does anyone have any experience with the AirForce 4-16X scope?  I'm not a super fan of it, but I havent heard anything bad about it yet.

About the tophat: What the heck is the tophat?  Where the heck is it?

About being able to shoot tight groups: I know I'm capable of 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards because I do it all the time with my .22-250 :)  Funny thing is some of these pellets arnt much lighter than some of my .22-250 ammo!

Thanks for you help.

[daved]

Seems like there should be a bad joke in there somewhere :-).  This is a top hat, and before you ask, the tiny allen head set screws are a .050".  Any more questions, fire away!  Later.  BTW, pic is courtesy of Adam aka Walkonking from the Talon forum.

Dave

Hey its not the top hat my talon ss was the same way what you need to do is shim your scope in the back ring just one piece of film or electrical tape that should help if not visit talonairgun.com. also she is great out of the box start at a power setting of 6 - 8 once you get the hang of it you will understand the basics about the gun TRUST ME you got a monster in that Condor!

[ZELDA]

For the top hat adjustment. If you raise it up creating a bigger gap, that gives you more air which in turn gives you more power? Or is it the other way around?

[daved]

You got it, bigger gap means bigger smack which means more air.  The real trick is getting the RIGHT amount of air :-).  If you've read through this entire thread you know it's a balancing act, top hat for power and Power Wheel for consistency.  Too big a gap just wastes air and makes noise, not power.  And too much power kills your accuracy.  Good luck.

Dave

[sirgabe]

Its been almost a year now that I've had my Condor.  I love my Condor :)