Some unexpected results.

[daved]

One of the job sites I frequently work at is pretty much over run with small ground squirrels.  From about now until the fall they are everywhere and into everything.  Needless to say, this makes them a major pest, and fair game.  Too small to eat, but they don't go to waste, the ravens and occasional crow are happy to dispose of them.  As I'm rather fond of the two larger black birds, it pleases me to feed them :-).

Anyway, I was on that site today, and had one of my Talons with me (of course!).  Only saw two squirrels, but was able to shoot both.  I typically go for head shots on these, and the first was no exception.  Only about 15 yards, nice head shot, and got the usual death dance.  These little guys just do not want to die!  As Shadow would say, the fuse box was blown but everything else was in overdrive.  This is pretty typical for these little guys, I just about always get a 10 to 20 second death dance.  Some of them are pretty comical in a macabre sort of way.  As usual, I put a second Kodiak in it just to speed up the process (I think).

Not too much later, number 2 shows himself.  This one is more like 25 yards off, standing straight up looking at me.  Put the cross hairs right between his eyes and let fly.  Not sure what happened, but for some reason the shot went about an inch low, nailed him dead center, heart/lung area right in line with the shoulders, and through and through.  Didn't do a postmortem, but I'm sure I cut the spinal cord as well.  And this is where it got unexpected.  This guy dropped on the spot, lights out and not a twitch.  Both my Talons are SS's, but this one is actually set up as an SS, with a 12" .177 barrel shooting 10.6 gr. Kodiaks at about 900 fps.  About 19 fpe, which is massive over kill for what I use it for, but I hit what I shoot at, and what I hit dies.

So I'm wondering if the emphasis on head shots is maybe a little off?  Granted, for a body shot, this one was perfect.  I'm sure I destroyed the heart and cut the spinal cord, there was instant massive blood loss as well.  But I'm still surprised by the instant lights out compared to the vast majority of head shots I've made.  So has anyone else gotten the same results?  And I guess the real question is, is a head shot really the most humane kill we can manage?  I'm really not that much of a hunter, so I'm looking forward to hearing from the regular hunters here.  Later.

Dave

[Progun]

Dave, a pass thru that severs the spinal column will always put em down now. Plus your front on chest shot with that Kodiak probably severed the aorta on its way to the spine.You can't kill any deader than that.I have killed a lot of squirrels with rib cage shots and never a crippling loss. The key here is power. If your rig will double lung you will have much the same effect as a deer being shot thru the ribs with a 30-06 only on a smaller scale.That Kodiak with your energy level @25 yds will do a surgical job of dispatching your critters if you put the pellet thru heart, lungs, aorta, spine or brain. Heart shots often elicit a mad dash for a few feet but  they won't go far. Take the head shot when you can get it but don't be a worryin' if all you have is a rib  cage shot. You have the power with your rig to make it work. Dave

[USNCop]

I know exactly what you are talking about Dave.  I'm not claiming to be Jack O'Connor or anything but
probably at least half of my airgunning over the last 24 years or so has been pest control, both fur and feather.
I explain it as this:
A heart shot would be considered a hydraulic shot, hence, producing a near instant drop in blood pressure.  You take away the pump, no pressure.  A shot somewhere away from the heart usually requires a few seconds for a significant loss of pressure.  Seems to usually cause movement I believe to be caused by reflex (fight/flight mechanism).
A shot throught the spinal column or brain would be considered a nervous system shot.  It seems a shot severing the spine somewhere between the base of the skull and the base of the neck is like shutting off a light switch.  I'm sure some others here have witnessed severed spines producing paralysis.
Obviously shots of higher energy (such as yours) or of large caliber basically destroy the brain instantly.  Shots more to the surface seem to be less instantaneous, usually causing the dancing.
Wiping out the "main computer" along with the accompanying shock wave basically is the light switch again.

Shooting different styles of pellets out of the same gun at a feathered target, same angle and so on, I seem to get more instant kills with Match or HP's than with Domes.  I think that is the shockwave at work.  How many times have we shot a feathered target like that and you KNOW from the appearance of your target at impact that it was fatal?
How many times did you place that perfect shot(steady rest, good squeeze)and you even saw the impact, only to see the damn thing glide down, fly off or hit the ground running?
That Dome probably didn't deliver enough shock on impact.  Just glided through and off goes the target.
Sorry folks for being long winded.  I have experimented so much with this and find it rather interesting.

I have to say I agree with the majority here. I dropped a squirrel last year at a distance of 20 yards with my crosman 2100 classic pump, and I was amazed at the instant kill from a spinal shot.

I was hiding in my tool shed waiting to get the one that had been destroying our landscaping, when he popped out of nowhere and sat down and started digging right away. I lined up and let fly with a regular crosman pointed, and it was an INSTANT kill. this was a side shot, and I was just using the irons, so I must admit it was a lucky shot.

I was amazed because, like everyone else here, I was used to the "5 second death roll" as I call it. to me its more of a "roll" than a "dance" since mine always seem to wrap their tails over themselves and tumble.

like everyone else I always tried for the perfect head shot, figuring it was the most humane for an instant kill. now that I have had some good "spined" shots, I am a believer that they are the best shot to take, IF you can manage them. sometimes the angle and view just doesn't allow for it.

as example, if he is facing towards me, I am just a hair below the head to centered left to right, and if he is facing away, I aim just at the base of the head (center left to right). if its a side shot, I always go for the head instead since its hard to estimate where the spine is in that sort of shot for me (could be a little low, a little high, etc.)

these have been reliable shots so far, as the death roll has been much shorter in duration if it happens at all. most just tip over and thats it.

-Mark

[shadow]

Good shootin and head shot's can drop em quick when the pellet destroy's most of the fusebox but at times it's still trying to send messages to the gears to fight or flight. A spine shot cut's the phoneline and all messages are cutshort. I've had some run for a yard or so before they realize "oh I'm dead", I'll just lay down here now hehehe. Again great shootin on the G- squirrel's. Ed

[only1harry]

Dave,

I 've gotten the same results with about 4-5 out of the ~22-23 squirrels I got this past hunting season.  They drop and no movement.

Sometimes we just make that perfect heart shot and it's lights out right away.  Without the heart pumping, my guess is that no blood goes to the brain so the nervous system shuts down very quickly, preventing them from flapping around or doing the stretch thing.  With head shots, part of the brain might still work and the heart is still pumping, until there is enough internal or external bleeding where the heart doesn't have any blood to pump and stops.  

I am however surprised you said you usually get a 10-20sec. death dance with head shots.  I usually get a 3-5sec. death dance or "stretching" (quivering, etc.) when I shoot them in the head using a 350 .22 that usually produces 23 to 24FPE at the muzzle with the pellets I use for hunting (CP's and CMs).  
I have howver seen a longer (5-10sec.) death dances when I used the less powerful 12fpe 850 .22, but never with the 350.  Even with chest shots that didn't hit the heart using the 350, I cannot recall a squirrel living more than 10secs after being hit.  Most of these were 20-35yds out.  I 've had the best results using the 18.2gr Crow Magnums with chest shots, ie: very short or no death dance at all.  They exit the other side leaving a nice 0.31+cal hole and both times the squirrel just fell to the side or down the tree and didn't move.  Massive bleeding was also observed like you said.  

I still like head shots though if I feel I can manage it because it incapacitates the squirrel instantly or much faster than the average chest shot where you take more chances, and the squirrel could run a few feet or crawl for a few secs before expiring.  I don't want to chance my neighbors seeing that.  I also have a LOT of groundhog holes on my property and have already lost a couple of squirrels that fell in them accidentally or after flapping around like a fish..  With headshots the squirrel doesn't normally move as much or relocate its selt by several feet as is possible with a quartering shot.  That's just from my experience.  

I 'm also beginning to think that the "bigger the gun" the harder they fall and faster they go out, since I got to take 5-6 squirrels with my 850 .22 and compared the results with my 350 .22... 12 vs. 24ft-lbs.  I 'll take the latter.

[Progun]

I agree Harry, more energy equals more efficient killing power. Sure the Brit's have to live with 12fpe but from what I read they tend to hunt with the heaviest pellets to get that energy in their underpowered air arms.This limits range and shots have little margin for error.We've all heard the argument that too much velocity is wasted energy and leaves a small hole that does little damage.I say bull feathers to that theory. Most pass thru shots that leave little damage are a result of not enough velocity. Shoot a crow with a .22 rimfire long rifle thru the chest and the bullet will always pass thru and kill the crow although the exit wound won't be very large. Shoot a crow thru the chest with a lighter but faster .22 mag and the exit wound will be the size of a half dollar even with a fmj bullet. The reason: more velocity and more power. translates into greater energy transfer.Plunking a squirrel with your 24fpe 350mag is much better medicine than any 12fpe gun in the world. Her's a tip for you the next time one of your critters falls into a ground hog hole: Use a length of barbed wire or even a length of saw briar to insert into the hole. Twist the wire around and you might be able to grab hold of some fur and pull the critter out. It often works on rabbits and squirrels when they "go to ground".Dave.

[only1harry]

Very true Dave.  I agree 100%.  
Another example.  I used to shoot all the groundhogs on my property with a .22LR (rimfire).  Then I switched to adult pellet rifles so I wouldn't break the law using the .22LR.  The few groundhogs I shot with the 350 .22 in the head took an average of 6-10secs to expire.  This is with CP's and Kodiaks going right through their skull.  

The groundhogs 2-3yrs earlier (about 14 of them) that I took with the .22LR, were also shot in the head with an exit hole, with the only difference being that the g-hogs expired immediately almost every time.  Why?  I don't know if it's more energy transfer or what, maybe it's the greater shock on impact of many more ft-lbs, but I know the 110-120FPE .22LR took them out in 1sec or less.  Most just dropped and never moved.  With the 350 .22, they would roll around, or make some noise (from chocking on their blood, etc.), one urinated up in the air on his back, another crawled for several feet, the other jumped up, flapped around like a squirrel, etc. after all were shot in the head.  I had to watch that for up to 10secs.  With .22LR, you pull the trigger and g-hog is down motionless, you 're done.  

This is the reason I 'm getting my 350 .22 power tuned so instead of shooting Kodiaks at 660fps, I can do it @ 730fps and CP's @ 900+fps (or CM's at close to 800fps). 3 more ft-lbs can only help when going after these large critters.