Obviously some guys here need help

[jon]

To the 2 fellas talking about hand pumps.........

First let me give you my background,  I have owned 12 PCPs since I got into airgunning, none of them are the ones you are speaking of.

But let me offer this bit of nfo for you.....pumps are probably the most unreliable way to fill your gun, I went through the same crap with pumps you are going through.  Return it and get your money back.

Go to a dive shop and get a used 100 cuft tank, it should be roughly $150 bucks.  Buy a fill set-up for a k valve, they are available through mulitple dealers for roughly $100 for a good one.

You will save yourself sooooooo much hassle, the guns you are using have a poor shot count in the airgunning world....do you really want to pump every 10-15 shots?  I have a working pump now but I can assure you that it will never be used for a back up.  I dont want moisture laden air in my expensive PCP's steel airtube, and either do you.

If your budget is higher than 300 bucks you definitely want a carbon fiber tank rated for 4,500 psi  Airhog has everything you need in a 625 dollar package.

I also shoot at big airgun matches, the only guy who has ever showed up with one is me.......there is a reason for that.  If there isnt access to a dive or paintball shop contact your local welding supply store about renting a nitrogen cylinder, airhog also sells the set-ups for that as well.  Tank rental is very affordable.

Air should be the last thing on your mind while shooting, the more you pump the less you will use those nice new guns because it just plain sucks to pump.  I have heard guys say they like pumping for the exercise...........thats just nuts and BS in my opinion.  Its just as cheap to get a scuba tank as a pump so why not go and get the most painless way to fill?

[ribbonstone]

Are right about any type of competitive shooting...the more effort put into getting the gun ready, the less steady the shooter.  Want to be able to devopte your full attention and effort to shooting.

But on a small volume gun (like the Discovery, but others as well) to get 25 good  21 foot pound shots takes about 45 pumps to get back up from base pressure.  To get  25 good 12 foot pound shots from a multi stroke pneumatic would take  200 strokes (stock gun - 8 stroke per shot) to 125 strokes (moded gun - 5 strokes per shot).  Although the mechanics are different for each type of pump pump stroke, the differnece in effort per stoke isn't all that great.  Are some modded multi-stroke guns that can get to 21 foot pounds...but the effort and number of  pump strokes is disproportionally large. OF course, there is the added effort of  building up the base pressure for the PCP...but that's not tapped out often )only when something breaks/leaks and needs fixing), so can spread that base-pressure-effort out over a long run of shooting.

So when I head off to hunt, where I would be lucky to get 20-25 shots at gray squirrels in a day (considering the game limit as well), a pump is what is brought along...not a tank.

[jon]

True,  but it takes seconds with no effort to fill with a tank,  and no you dont need to drag a huge tank on a hunt.  One of my bottles was a 13 cuft which was barely 5 pounds and yielded about 3 fills.  Trust me the pump will break, an aluminum tank is good forever as long as it passes hydro tests every 5 years.

And the disovery is a minority in the PCP world, very few PCP's will work effectively at 2,000 psi and the new trend is towards higher pressure guns.  Trust me pump up a talon or a career once and tell me I'm not exactly right.

Just trying to save some guys hassle and a few bucks down the road, I cant tell you how many times I've heard that a brand new pump hasnt worked correctly, they are very tempermental.  Scuba and CF tanks are as easy as pie to use, people make waaaaaay too much of an issue in transporting them either in hunting or competitive shooting.

[spysir]

Now that's just my thought okay?
I have pumped a 500cc Career Ultra from empty, I sure do wish that had been enough air to get it sighted in but it wasnt.
And as Jon points out hand pump air is far from dry which may not be good in the long run. I have one 2000psi fill airgun
which gets a nice 60+ fills from a 3000psi tank, the tank was $114.00 new and the fill yoke w/hose was $35.00 used.
When we lived in WA State there was NO scuba shop around all winter, [umping was the only way to go, we moved.
Also the last (2nd) pump we purchased, an FX came with a bad air guage, I pumped all night, the Bam, two Careers, a 909 .45, others.
Had big plans on shooting in the morning but darned if the pumps (it was brand new eh?) guage wasnt a full 60BAR off. Even the 909
had valve lock, the Bam firing valve broke, uck.
 Now if you ever start working on your airguns say to find/repair a leak that pump isnt going to cut it. Dont get me wrong I do still for some
odd reason have a hand pump (with a new air guage) that was only used one day in the house, there are too usful to throw out but I havent used it in close to two years.
 Scuba is cheaper.

  John

[airgun/cuz]

There are pro  &  cons with both the tank & pump,if you buy the better pump The Hill Pump $250-$300 & not the cheaper Crosman Pump $130-$189 (made in china)you are less likely to have problems with moisture,pump breakdown & pumping time....I have The BSA SCORPION T-10 BB .22 , 40 shots  per fill instead of taking 40 shots,I do 20 & than re-fill,the gun is maxed at 200 bar,after my 20, sometimes 30 shots, I still have betwee135-150 bar ,it takes me between 30-40 pumps to max out to 200,it is also easier to break down & carry on my walks when I am out shooting in the woods......As for the tank,hands down much more convenient to fill your gun,when less travel is required through your shoot-out,less strenuous re-fills,much quicker re-fills.........the more you fill,the more air you use,the quicker you need to drive to a shop & re-fill your tank $7-$8 per fill,which is peanuts,after 50 refills,the peanuts are much bigger, For these reasons, I would rather buy a beautifull THEOBEN ELIMINATOR/CRUSADOR/SLR-98/EVOLUTION with the money saved from 100 re-fills & money spent on a tank.........IMO it is like eating CRABS,much too much work to enjoy a cavity fill of meat..LOL!

[preez]

Just wanted to chime in on the subject matter. Scuba shops are NOT the only places able to fill or inspect scuba tanks. Fire department often has equipment to fill their SCBA bottles and would probably fill your tank (maybe for free?) Also fire extinguisher service places are fully capable of filling/hydrotesting tanks. In fact, most scuba shops take their costumer tanks to one of those places for hydro. They also charge much LESS for fills and hydro than your average Scuba shop.

Hope this helps

Chris

[johncedarhill]

No offense but don't count on fire departments to do anything. I tried that route and just wasted a lot of time. Paintball shops was another area I tried and the ones here could not fill that much volume in less than a day.

I have a pump as well but the reality is that pumps are a pain. Go the route of a tank. Of course if you have the money a compressor would be nice.

[jon]

The main thing is thing I wanted to do is just dispell the myth that pumps are cheaper...........they are not and dont count on one that is used regularly to last you more than 5 years.   Then when it does break where will you get it fixed.........the answer is that you cant get it fixed you have to buy a new one.

Trust me on this I've been down this road already and I had a "quality" pump not a discovery of bam knock off.  Mine is collecting dust in the garage wasting the $250 bucks I spent on it.  I now have 2 scuba tanks and couldnt be happier, I could shoot for 12 hours straight and only use half of it.

When I went to Gene's shoot there was enough air in one of my tanks for 2 people shooting pellet after pellet.  Could you imagine trying to pump everey 50 shots when I almost shot 2 tins of 500?  Or better yet shoot a career on full power and pumping everey 10 shots. I'm not an old guy but I would have feared having a heart attack pumping that much.

[MartinDWhite]

The SCUBA shop near me, will for $30 a year, fill as often as I bring the tank to their shop. They will also fill for $6 a fill.

In two weeks I have had my tank filled twice. I don't see my shooting slowing down....I think that I got the better end of the year long deal.

    Martin D. White

[ribbonstone]

Will still toss the pump in the Jeep when going out on a gray squirrel hunt....seldom have to refill the gun at all (never...unless I get side-tracked by plinking or pest control while out hunting bushy tails).

One gun, a Discovery, is used as a PCP about 1/5th the time...the 4/5ths backyard practice is filled just fine by co2.  IF that was my only need for compressed air, I'd stick with a pump (small volume...low pressure...easy to fill).

My current needs are met without the fast/large tank volume PCP's...have sold off all of them except the Discovery, along with the tanks (OK...there is one out of date tank in the shed...which I might get rehydroed, and might not).  IF it weren't for pumps, I'd not have bothreed to keep any PCP's at all.

[Jaymo]

Well, I have 2 50 cu ft tanks which I bought used for 60 bucks each, full, from the local dive shop. 4 more years on the hydro. Where can I get a smaller, more portable tank for a decent price?
I'd like to be able to carry one while hunting.

[Jaymo]

On the 909, I was actually going to pump every 2-3 shots, just to maintain velocity. I'm not going to pump it from empty, just use it for top off. Do the Axsor tanks have dessicant/moisture filters in them, or just a water "sump" to allow draining of moisture?

[Jaymo]

I also wanted to use the pump to bulk fill my QB78s for cold weather shooting. Or is this a bad Idea? Seems pumping it to 900 psi shouldn't be too bad.

[Jaymo]

Actually, my wife says I'm beyond help.

[DanoInTx]

I pump, have since I bought my first PCP 7 PCP's ago.  I don't find it too terribley hard, but then I top off my 3 PCP's before I go shooting, then take turns with each till I refill.  I own a Career 707 II and it's not bad to top off, and the shot count is really good (70+).  I've also owned a TalonSS, which again I didn't find too hard to pump (after the first time).  I DO however really like shooting my Big Ed tuned B51 that gets a good 35 shots on a 1700psi fill, then refill at 1200psi in 40 or so strokes.  I've pondered buying a tank for when I go to all day shootouts, but for the amount of shooting I do around the house a pump is just fine.  I always pump everything up before a shootout in my air conditioned livingroom, then maybe top each gun off once during a shootout....that's about all the shooting I ever do...3 guns, 2 fills each.  When and if I get tired of pumping I bust out with a springer or a CO2 gun.  I'm no competitive shooter, and I guess if I was a tank would be more important to me, but for right now I just like to relax and shoot and the pump suits me just fine.  If I owned a big bore PCP I think a tank would be on my short shopping list, I've shot those things and I think pumping one up every 5 shots would be pretty ridiculous.  So I would say for the leisurely shooter that doesn't shoot 2000 shots a week a pump is fine.  I have an FX pump that I have never resealed, still works fine.  I've also been inside many of my guns and never saw any sign of moisture or rust, but then you'll never catch me out pumping in the rain:)


Edit: Oh yea, mainly pump to avoid yet another place I have to pay to have my tank filled.  I would rather spend 15 minutes pumping all of my guns than spend a couple hours driving all over town to get a tank filled.  Gas isn't cheap and my time isn't either, maybe they will put a SCUBA shop up the street from my house someday so I can avoid the drive, somehow I doubt that is going to happen here in the middle of Texas, but you never know:)