"Cheap" shots?

[daved]

I realize this probably belongs on the Back Room, but for now, it needs to be here.  Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that every time Steve_NC posts on our forum, he's somehow taking a jab at Bob?  His recent post about the new trigger mod is a perfect example.  I know I'm not the only one that checks out both forums, yet no one saw fit to bring it up here.  And yet, it's been all over the Yellow for weeks.  Other than an initial design from a peice of bent up shim stock, the current offering has mostly been the work of other people.  I don't think Steve has any right to any of the proceeds, so why is he the one posting here?  Why not Skyler, the guy actually doing the work and sales?  In my opinion, this is the kind of crap that permeates the Yellow forum, and part of the reason I stopped posting there.  It's NOT what I want to see happen to our Forum.  So what do you think, people?  Am I out of line, or are we better off without the Steve_NC type on our forum?

Dave

[Black Mamba]

I think the reason that Steve_NC is being allowed to post here is a direct result of his actions when the rift occured between him and CDT.  

When things went bad between them, Steve's subsequent actions against some of the yellow forum members that either supported CDT or in a few cases questioned Steve's actions really made an impression on Gene and CDT, in my opinion.  They got to see how NOT to moderate a BBS.

With Steve's continueing attacks and attempts to stir up trouble over here (as clearly seen on the yellow BBS with the help of some of his supporters) there as been a division created amongst the airgunning BBS community.

Most of us are somewhat caught in the middle of all of this.  Speaking for myself, I have remained silent since this began because I find the information available to be too valuable to a novice airgunner like myself to get caught up in an altercation between online individuals.

Regardless of negative feelings between personalities I'm guessing that Gene and CDT still are holding true to the free form of ideas and views for their forums.  Heavy handed moderation does nothing but create distrust and lack of interest.  I've never imagined that was what Gene and CDT wanted for their creation.  Ergo, Steve is allowed to post here until he becomes a problem.

That is of course, my take on this.

[daved]

I agree with you about 99.5%, Greg, at least in so far as where Bob and Gene are coming from.  I guess the question has to be, am I the only one that feels he's become a problem?  I'll admit, I'm not well known for my tolerance or patience, but we all have our limits.  To me, this is like having someone walking into my house and slapping me whenever they want, just because they feel like it.  Gene and Bob are the ones with their names on this forum, and yet they're supposed to put up with this pussilanimous little *_*_*_*_*_* ant for the sake of maintaining an open forum?  I guess I'm getting a little worked up here.  Even though I've never met Bob or Gene in person, and probably never will, my dealings with them on this forum, and with Bob as CDT, have led me to consider both of them friends.  Like you, I staye quiet for a long time, even though it bothered me that a public forum was being used as a private soap box.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bob or Gene have been perfect here, and I've said so before.  But that' just another of Steve's wonderful qualities, he pops in over here, pushes peoples buttons, and gets them to react.  Ever fight a midget?  It's a no win, win or lose you end up looking small.  Well, there I go spouting off again.  Didn't someone say something about private soap boxes?  Later.

Dave

[vinceb]

I understand your frustration, and your observations are not without warrant. However, please do not get into name-calling. Over in the other forum, personal insults are strictly forbidden - unless you're insulting the right people! In that case, even the forum moderator joins in with utter impunity. I don't think Gene is going to selectively enforce the rules here, I believe he wants to be fair about that.

In any case, despite Bob's (CDT's) testimony to the contrary (some of Bob's tune-up files give Steve a fair bit of credit), I'm not sure that Steve has demonstrated the kind of expertise that one can implicitly trust.

Steve doesn't seem willing to have a technical disagreement with someone without resorting to personal comments that have no bearing on the issue at hand - while at the same time refusing to really address the issues raised. He will also put words in your mouth, so to speak... either he doesn't read your posts, or he decides that he knows what you mean more that you do.

In my experience in the mechanics and engineering fields, this sort of thing is frequently (but not always) used to cover up a lack of competence. I don't know if that's the case here, but better safe than sorry...

[CharlieDaTuna]

It would appear that you are pretty much on the mark Dave. I think that most persons on this forum (and other forums  as well),  are of the same opinion as you and Greg. The people that have been around for awhile recognize it for what it is and know what the motives and reasons are for what the person in question is doing or attempting to do to not only me but also to our forum.  However, most just set back and not voice an opinion. But for the new members and visitors/guests, they are at a total loss of understanding. Personally, I/we, the fellow members, welcome opinions and hope that some of the guys....and gals... , meaning our members, will make their voices heard with responses to your post, good, bad or indifferent. This is your forum everybody, so don't be afraid to speak out if you have an opinion.

What I do hate to see is that the new people that have come on board the GTA lately (as well as our future members)  have no idea what has happened in the past,and have no idea the struggle we had and the issues we overcame to get this place we call "home" off the ground because of the person in question as well as others that were recruited to "squash"us.  Our later members are unable to relate to it  and are not able separate fact from "fiction/friction". That to me can be very counter-productive to our forums growth, stability and more importantly, integrity. At the same time, there are a couple of people out there including the person here in question that are well aware of that and take advantage of it at every opportunity with scheming and deceitful approaches.

[daved]

Sorry, Vince, you're right, no more name calling.  Regarding Bob, are you referring to verbal or written communication?  Reason I ask is, while he's probably not the Worlds Greated Authority (we all know who that is! (NO NAMES!!)), all of our phone conversations have all been pretty much on point.  His written commnunication, on the other hand, can definitely be confusing at times.  Hey, if we were all great communicators, the divorce rate wouldn't be 1/4 of what it is!  Truly, I don't think his intent is to obfuscate, I just don't think he expresses himself well in writing.  As far as words in your mouth, or not answering the question asked, my wife does that all the time.  Again, I don't beleive it's malicious.

Other than the one rifle I've had him work on, I can't speak for his technical expertise.  But I will say that that one rifle has benefitted immensely from his expertise.  I'm a shade tree mechanic, a jack-leg engineer, I build houses for a living, and I tend toward control freak.  There aren't too many people I trust to work on ANY mechanical devices I own, Bob is one of them.  You don't do what he's done for as long as he's done it without figuring out a thing or two.  Haven't seen pages of testimonials for NC Steves contribution to air gunning.

Dave

[vinceb]

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT BOB!!!!!! NOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Re-reading my post, I can see where it wasn't clear! The only reason I even mentioned Bob is that some of his old tune-up files credit "the other guy" for his technical assistance! IT WAS THE "OTHER GUY", NOT BOB that I was talking about!!!!

BOB - CAN YOU FORGIVE ME?

[DanoInTx]

Hehe, I was reading that earlier and thinking,"Man, what happened between Vince and Bob?".  I'm a nubee to this hobby and just when I think I understand everyones side of the story I get confused again.   There's a reason why people take sides in stuff, and the guy who's the loudest generally starts sounding stupider and less believable with time.  Booting people, or yelling back at people isn't going to do one thing that these folks aren't already doing to themselves.  It just gives them more attention.  Eventually if you ignore them long enough they crawl back into their bitter little holes and cry themselves to sleep.  Ok, this was my one and only post on this matter after reading about it for months.   I'm done now.

Dan

[CharlieDaTuna]

I was a bit taken to say the least though. Ain't no one ever said nothin' like that about me before except by a couple of guys from the other side...lol...

In the past, I always either went along with what he would say or I would say nothing and tried to never get involved with many of the controversial statements he would make. Regardless of the issue, he was always right and everybody else that challenged it was wrong.

The statement you made "He doesn't seem willing to have a technical disagreement with someone without resorting to personal comments that have no bearing on the issue at hand - while at the same time refusing to really address the issues raised. He will also put words in your mouth, so to speak... either he doesn't read your posts, or he decides that he knows what you mean more that you do." is a fact that I lived along side of for a long time.

Anyhow Vince...no problem....and thanks my friend

I guess I am one of the "new" guys on this forum who doesn't have any idea as to what happened between Bob and Steve.  I do see the "pointed" posts by a few people though and figured out pretty quickly that something was amiss.  I had initially started out at the network54 Gamo forum and that's when I first became aware that there were "issues".  I for one, still am not sure what exactly had happend between them and had posted my feelings with regard to that on the network54 board a couple of months ago which started with a GRTIII trigger post. I sort of felt like I was appologizing for something I had nothing to do with.   With that in mind, it's a shame that a lot of the people are blindly seduced into a mob mentality by a few posts by people who, for the most part, most of us don't even REALLY know...other than sharing thoughts on these boards. It reminds me of a similar situation a couple of years ago when a certain "pop" star icon was accused of molesting a child.  To see all of those people, who weren't relatives or close personal friends of this guy, holding signs saying he's innocent and standing behind him, etc., to me, was beyond  belief and rational comprehension.  Just because they listen to his music they think they know him? I'm not saying he's innocent or not, my point is that these people don't and can't know what really happened and sided with him just the same. Similalrly what has happened here and the net54 GAMO forum between Bob and Steve.  I'm sure there are a few guys who are close personal friends to each, and for them,obviously this doesn't apply because they really know them.  What has happend between Bob and Steve should be left to Bob and Steve to resolve themselves, and as such, everyone taking "sides" just seems to be counter productive IMHO.  After all, everyone (on both forums) share a common interest and we can all gain from that.  Bob had tuned two of my rifles a couple of years ago, and did a great job I might add. (My testimonial is still on his site)  Because of my satisfaction with his work, I purchased two of his GRTIII triggers recently, and am equally satisfied with those as well.  Will he get business from me in the future, you bet, as far as I'm concerned I'm a returning happy customer, but I cannot side with something or someone I know absolutely nothing about first hand.  Please don't take that the wrong way, because I have similar thoughts on the matter regarding Steve as well.  What I do know is this....there are a lot of very helpful people on that forum, just as there are here, and I for one have been fortunate enough to learn and exchange information with people on both forums.   I have hopes that this will all settle down soon and we can all get back to what we came here for....air guns.

[vinceb]

...you are absolutely correct about people coming to conclusions without knowing squat. My own comments are derived from my own observations and nothing else.

But, that being said, I'm more inclined to give credence to CDT's version of events after observing SNC's reactions and responses in different situations.

I hope that my last post wasn't perceived as being harsh or critical....that was not my intention at all.  I meant no disrespect to anyone involved and sincerely hope that it wasn't perceived that way.  If it was, I sincerely appologize.  I was just trying to explain my, albeit long winded, thoughts with regard to the "jumping on the band wagon" type of mentality that seems to occur on quite a few forums...which only applies to the people (myself included) who know nothing of what happened, other than what is told to them.   I had been in the middle of a real nasty one last Spring with people who were all members of the same forum (not air gun related) and at the risk of sounding hypocritical, got caught up in taking sides, similar to the very same scenario that's happening now.   I eventually realized that I did not know squat about what really happened, appologized, and bowed out of the thread and hopefully became all the wiser from that experience.  I really enjoy both Gamo forums, and have noticed that there are quite a few people who are members of both.  I would like to see it continue that way, that's all.

[Gene_SC]

When I first started in this sport of air guns almost a year ago  it was in the Yellow forum and Gamo Forum. Met allot of good guys there. Made friends there. Some of them frequent our forum here also now.  That is where I met CDT. Was able to get allot of information from him. He freely give me help over the phone and through email. And of course through the forum itself.

I do not think you will find one post that CDT has posted in the other forums since we opened our doors here at the GTA. CDT and myself are not allowed to post our opinions there. Not that we would anyway. There are allot of good guys in that forum and they choose to stay there because they have been there for years and have seen these kinds of thing happen over time an know it will blow over. Some do not care what others think and come here and post also. I have not run into but three people in the year I have been on the air gun forums that have done me wrong. Do I get mad and go to other forums and  post nasty things about them? NO! Life is to short to carry on like that. Besides our sport has hundreds of great guys like there is in our forum here. It would be great if this world was perfect but it is not.

I have been waiting for Steve_NC to stop the posts here that are directed at CDT, but he just continues on. CDT and myself started up your forum here and CDT has made his resources available through our library. That is many years of technical info. He watches for members that have questions that he can help them with. Myself on the other hand knows very very little...

CDT does not know everything and I know he would be the first one to say it. I do know after knowing him personally for almost a year that he is a kind, generous and helpful man.

As far as Steve_NC and some of his followers coming here just to post something to belittle CDT or anyone else, I am going to make a decision this week what I am gonna do about the situation  and will announce it for everyone to see.  

Just remember that all your opinions are welcome here as long as they do not put someone down personally.  This is your forum and always will be. CDT and myself are always open for any improvements etc. Just let us know.

Thanks

Gene

[-=ed]

.

Maybe we could have a forum forSteve only, and let him vent there?

[CharlieDaTuna]

but....food for thought