Barrel Hinge Idea G1/Quest No machining Skills

[troypla]

I've been surfing around and saw Fix's hinge mod w/shoulder bolt, love it. Also, RCnMO  posted Quest hinge "Fixxed", very nice.  I made something similar to Ralph's version of Paul's mod from store bought bronze bushing and grade 8 washers(all with hand tools/dremel/drill). It works but isn't "machine" tolerances and has one noticable flaw. The sleeve is exactly the width of the assembly and is leaving filings above the threads from it's end turning against the receiver fork.

So, I was wondering if i gave some specs, if someone would be willing/able to make a special set. My idea is two sleeve bearings with flanges.  With flange od to fit where the stock washers go, flange thickness to be measured yet, the sleeve od to fit the barrel block and the sleeve id to fit stock screw. The KEY to this idea is this, one flange would have a much longer sleeve:
  The flange/sleeve combo on the threaded side of the receiver fork would have a longer sleeve, the width of barrel block minus say1/8"(these measurements would be spec with dial calipers) . This would hold the alive jam in place and be the base/strength for rotation.
  The flange/sleeve on the side where screw head goes would have short sleeve. These two sleeves would have a tiny bit of space when mounted so when tightened they would squeeze the barrel block. Loctite and go.

The receiver forks on my G1 are toed in a bit and have about .005 difference in width. So, I think the barrel would line up with the plane of the threaded side. the side with the hole would support the head of the screw and therefore some of the rotational force.

I am no machinist and appreciate a forum like this where ideas get bounced around. I hope one of you is interested. I think there may even be a market for something like this. Don't know about the costs/profitablity but it seems to be (at least in MY head) much better than stock.

[RCnMo]

Check your PM

[troypla]

fix - 10/8/2008  5:21 AM

WOW..thats a GREAT idea!!!! may i copy your idea into my guns?

Absolutely, I was actually thinking it would be a great intermediate mod for you to market on your new site but didn't want to be so presumptive in my initial post.
Like I said, I'm no machinist but have had to FIX a bunch of stuff creatively most of my life. I grew up in a humble economic environment and the lack of $$$ and necessity is the mother of invention.

Now let's talk royalties ;-)

RCnMO has agreed to give the idea a trial run. I'm hoping you would take a one time trade for perpetual use of the concept! Check your PM

[troypla]

Check that PM?

[troypla]

Raph aka RCnMO did it beautifully. Installed and loctited(is that a verb?). Will cock it tomorrow evening. He cut it to the dimensions I requested perfectly. I missed on the od of sleeve by measuring a home made bushing that was a tight fit but was not perfectly round.

I intended for an interference fit in the breech block so only the sleeve was rotating on the screw. I have since been informed that such a fit would require the breach to be on hand for precision. The fit in the block is perfect, no slop and the flanges squeeze down with screw so there is no lateral play. If the loctite holds I will be golden!

I think the main benefit of this setup is the shoulder of the stock screw has more contact than with a bushing and washers. How much better AND if it holds up...only time will tell.
 Here is a pic of RCnMO's work. Stock bushing at the bottom

[RCnMo]

Glad it fits Troy. I wish I'd left a few tenths extra for you for a tighter fit though. Maybe next time.

[troypla]

Ralph,
It's like you told me from the beginning, would have been tighter if you had the breach on hand. Besides, it came out to my specs exactly. Verry difficult to measure the hole in the block and the bushing I made to fit snugly was much less than round. Thanks again.

[troypla]

Fix, you were right! 30 cocking cycles later and she's holding tight. After 10 or so to move the scope shims around, this puppy is right on the money, if I do my part. Keep in mind I've only been shooting a springer for 1300 or so pellets. All my five shot groups are making holes that touch with a flyer here and there when I get to excited/confident and shake/shimmy pulling the trigger.
 
To all you guys and gals who don't know RCnMO(Ralph), let me tell you, this is one heck of a guy. I put this idea up and he was the first up and said"I can do it for you"
I haven't been around long and this gentleman, who doesn't know me from Adam,  just donated his time, shop, skills and boy do I mean skills!
Ralph you are to much for words.
 How do you all say it?
Ca Dawg this here is a Great Place to Be

awesome Troy, now shoot it like you stole it.
how bout some pics.

[RCnMo]

Thanks for the kind words Troy. I'm glad it worked out for you.

[troypla]

Will do Craig.
What you want to see, target/groups, gun looks stock plus a gold trigger not much to look at. I haven't opened it up to show you the buttons. I've been fiddling with it so much, I may do like you suggested and smoke it for a while before putting it on the bench.  
The hinge mod pic is a couple posts up. See that nice work!
I'm under the gun, so to speak, this week. S,o it'll be the weekend before I can take 'em. Out of town tomorrow and tuesday then the rest of the week on a construction site breathing down the contractors neck to finish his work.
I'll be peeking around here when I get breaks.

pics of groups will work.

[CharlieDaTuna]

Well done Troy and Ralph. It sure is great to see a couple of guys that really don't even know each other get together and do innovative things and meet with success in a project such as this and then share their experience. That's what the GTA is all about. This sure is a great place to be.

[troypla]

I got a couple of rushed evenings of shooting this week and the groups were opening up. I shrugged it off and attributed it to my stress level and the fact that I was starting late and not settling in to the"groove" . So, this afternoon I went out and took my time about it and sure enough the groups aren't as tight as I first reported, still 1 inch at 20yds (much better than before the mod).
I inspected the action at the hinge and what do you know, a tiny bit of wiggle. The screw hasn't budged (I sharpied a dot even w/slot). I 'm guessing that the fact that I coudn't Machine the flats of the breech block where the flanges ride is the problem. I was able to tighten the screw another 16th-8th of a turn more than the first time and get the same amount of friction when cocking. So, I backed it out to a point where there was still a thread or two in the hole, dumped some Loctite in and tightened it back. Hopefully it'll hold and that will resolve the variances I'm experiencing? As long as those flats aren't perfectly parallel (they were .002-.003 off on each side and not in the same plane), I'm thinking I'll have some trouble but maybe I'll get lucky. I did get my first squirrel right under the ear at 15 yards 20 feet up! Check the hunting gate.

[fnash]

I have a Summit that I have this problem with..  I could not figure it out, it would shoot good groups with the open sights and shot gun pattern with a scope. I thought it was the scope and changed it , even though I did not think it was kicking that hard. Yet, everything seemed to be tight. I just finished reading Tom Cooper's article on line about the Quest and Phantom and found he mentions the hinge also.. it does seem to swing a bit too freely. So the problem is the way it bolts up,, good to know.  I may be needing a fix like this too if it proves to be the answer..  Thanks,,, Frank