Author Topic: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97  (Read 17570 times)

Offline Woodzy

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RE: Walther Force 1000 -- The News is All (sorta) Good...
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2009, 07:23:50 AM »
Got mine too...Not as nice as you guys. The stock has about three dings and there are four R's stamped on it . two on the forearm and two on the receiver. I pulled it out of the stock and it seemed pretty dry. Only the barrel was loaded with black sticky goo. I cleaned it up and popped a few pellets thru it down at the swamp. Seems to shoot OK, but I'll mount the scope and see what kind of groups I get. Then it's time for a tune..hope I can find a decent seal for it.

Offline thebookdoc

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2009, 07:42:45 AM »
Well, last night I put a Gamo rail/riser on mine as a test. I had to file a little off the ends of the rail to get it to fit right, but it seems to be on really solid right now. I even gave a couple taps with a hammer to see if it'd move...nada... I put some Hawke Rings on the rail, and they took to it nicely.

So I mounted a Bushnell Trophy 6-18x40 that has been looking for a home. As the rail and the rings are not adjustable, I wasn't able to get this situated the way I want, and maxing the vertical and right on the scope still left me a tad left and low. However, after that I put 5 pellets through the same hole at 10 yards, standing, and-holding the rifle. I'd have to estimate about .15 C-T-C. I don't know that I can shoot much better than that.

I'm looking for some low adjustable rings, I think, to sub out for the Hawkes. On the other hand, I liked the Hawke rings a LOT! I think I'll try to get some adjustable risers/rails, or adapters for mounting. That rail has my confidence right now, and it looks good, but I'm thinking I'm better off adjusting at the rail than at the ring.

MY ONLY DISAPPOINTMENT...I see now the trigger is plastic. But I'm guessing I can gt a metal one to swap out...

This will be a slow project, but I also might try some unique things with it considering the $70 so far well spent. Worse comes to worse, I'll have a spare checkered TF89 stock soon that I am sure will fit...

Pictures, I think, this weekend!
THE GUNS:
     â€¢ Cometa Fusion Star (Gene tuned) 12/10/09
     â€¢ Cometa Fenix RWS 94 2/8/10
     â€¢ RWS Diana 48 .177 1/8/10 [TRADE for RWS 350]
     â€¢ Walther Force 1000 .177 11/11/09
     â€¢ TF89 .22 10/26/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ TF89 .177 (Gene tuned) 9/6/09
     â€¢ Remington Vantage 1200 .177 8/22/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ Daisy 953 (pneumatic) 8/02/08
     â€¢ Gamo Big Cat 2/5/10 (broken...free...maybe gas piston?!)

THE SCOPES:  
     â€¢ Sightron SII 4-16x42 AO  
     â€¢ Leupold VX-II 3-9x33 Ultralight EFR AO
     â€¢ Bushnell Trophy 6-18x42 AO  
     â€¢ Swift 686 High Recoil 6.5-20x44 AO  
     â€¢ Hawke Air Max 4-12x40 AO  
     â€¢ Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 AO

Offline brengraver

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2009, 01:15:17 PM »
Mine came in today.   This is a lot of gun for the price, I must agree.

 To ditto a few earlier coments, there were two r's on the stock (either side) and two on the brl and main tube.   There were also two pretty good rounded dents on the right side of the stock.  I'll try to steam them up, as no fiber is broken.  As to the stock in general, I'll proabably reshape it some to lighten a little timber off the  heft.  I'll also checker it.  So much for the looks.

The only reference I have in a springer is a Gamo Shadow 1000 NRA.  The Walther is 2 1/2" longer O.A., and about 1" longer on the pull.  The trigger puill is actually much better than the stock Gamo, although I am hoping to improve both now that I have discovered this site.  The cocking force is much heavier and rougher just before engagement, than the Gamo, but otherwise function is fine.

I will keep a eye open here for things that you are doing to your guns, and keep learning.  I'm glad I found the forum and the tip on the gun.  Have fun.



Accuracy is almost identical using Crossman Premiers.  I look forward to getting outside to some longer ranges to really test them together.
brengraver
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Offline WVscott

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2009, 11:55:31 PM »
Any velocity numbers on these refurbs. yet?  
    regards, Scott
Regards, Scott

Offline thebookdoc

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2009, 12:03:18 AM »
Quote
WVscott - 11/15/2009  7:55 AM
Any velocity numbers on these refurbs. yet?  
    regards, Scott


Plan on testing this afternoon.
THE GUNS:
     â€¢ Cometa Fusion Star (Gene tuned) 12/10/09
     â€¢ Cometa Fenix RWS 94 2/8/10
     â€¢ RWS Diana 48 .177 1/8/10 [TRADE for RWS 350]
     â€¢ Walther Force 1000 .177 11/11/09
     â€¢ TF89 .22 10/26/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ TF89 .177 (Gene tuned) 9/6/09
     â€¢ Remington Vantage 1200 .177 8/22/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ Daisy 953 (pneumatic) 8/02/08
     â€¢ Gamo Big Cat 2/5/10 (broken...free...maybe gas piston?!)

THE SCOPES:  
     â€¢ Sightron SII 4-16x42 AO  
     â€¢ Leupold VX-II 3-9x33 Ultralight EFR AO
     â€¢ Bushnell Trophy 6-18x42 AO  
     â€¢ Swift 686 High Recoil 6.5-20x44 AO  
     â€¢ Hawke Air Max 4-12x40 AO  
     â€¢ Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 AO

Offline WVscott

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2009, 02:06:42 AM »
Doc, how do you like the swift 6.5-20x44 scope?  And what is it mounted on?
       thanks, Scott
Regards, Scott

Offline thebookdoc

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2009, 03:28:36 AM »
Well, I went out and tested the Walther Force 1000 and was not surprised...Except by my first test string which I threw out because it was tooo consistent. hi 806, low 804...no kidding. So I did two more 10-shot runs, and here are the results:

      #1      #2
lo      794.7      792.1
hi      806.0      819.1
av      803.7      808.4
spr      11.33      26.97
sd      3.6      8.94

lo = lo velocity in 10 shots
hi = hi velocity in 10 shots
av = average of 10 shots
spr = hi to lo spread
sd = standard deviation

Keep in mind this gun has about 50 shots through AFTER testing so it can't be considered as 'broken in'. It is not tuned or altered in any way after purchase except for the addition of a scope. I did not weigh the pellets for consistency, and probably should have. I used JSB .177 DIABOLO EXACT HEAVY 10.2 gr Considering the weight of the pellets, the standard 7.9 pellet would be shooting considerably faster:

lo      915   
hi      943
av      928
spr      28

FPE      15.13 FPE (base on 20 shot ave, 805.5 FPS)
C-T-C      .25" groupings @ 10 yards (best, .15" !!)

These stats are comparable with the stats from my tuned TF89 .177 (see: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22541&mid=179237#M179237 ). No denying it is likely the same gun with a different stock.
THE GUNS:
     â€¢ Cometa Fusion Star (Gene tuned) 12/10/09
     â€¢ Cometa Fenix RWS 94 2/8/10
     â€¢ RWS Diana 48 .177 1/8/10 [TRADE for RWS 350]
     â€¢ Walther Force 1000 .177 11/11/09
     â€¢ TF89 .22 10/26/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ TF89 .177 (Gene tuned) 9/6/09
     â€¢ Remington Vantage 1200 .177 8/22/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ Daisy 953 (pneumatic) 8/02/08
     â€¢ Gamo Big Cat 2/5/10 (broken...free...maybe gas piston?!)

THE SCOPES:  
     â€¢ Sightron SII 4-16x42 AO  
     â€¢ Leupold VX-II 3-9x33 Ultralight EFR AO
     â€¢ Bushnell Trophy 6-18x42 AO  
     â€¢ Swift 686 High Recoil 6.5-20x44 AO  
     â€¢ Hawke Air Max 4-12x40 AO  
     â€¢ Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 AO

Offline thebookdoc

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2009, 03:31:54 AM »
Like the Swift just fine. Here is my preliminary brief review:

Manufacturer: Swift
Model: Premiere 686m
Airgun Rated?: Y
Zoom range: 6.5-20
Objective: 44
Reticle: duplex
Turret type: No lock, screw cap covered, adjustable zero, finger turn
Click val: 1/4th
Special features: none
---
Zoom Feel: Easy turn, nice
AO feel: Easy turn, a little scratchy
Turret feel: too easy to turn, lacks good crisp distinction in clicks
Parallax on zoom: Excellent
Brightness: good. Seems to loose some contrast near the high end of the range.
---
View impressions: noticed some purple and green chromatic aberration when out of focus at high magnification. Also, edges of the view get soft at high magnification. eye-relief is a little touchy -- can't move your head much at all. Excellent short focus. Nice target scope. Heavy...
THE GUNS:
     â€¢ Cometa Fusion Star (Gene tuned) 12/10/09
     â€¢ Cometa Fenix RWS 94 2/8/10
     â€¢ RWS Diana 48 .177 1/8/10 [TRADE for RWS 350]
     â€¢ Walther Force 1000 .177 11/11/09
     â€¢ TF89 .22 10/26/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ TF89 .177 (Gene tuned) 9/6/09
     â€¢ Remington Vantage 1200 .177 8/22/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ Daisy 953 (pneumatic) 8/02/08
     â€¢ Gamo Big Cat 2/5/10 (broken...free...maybe gas piston?!)

THE SCOPES:  
     â€¢ Sightron SII 4-16x42 AO  
     â€¢ Leupold VX-II 3-9x33 Ultralight EFR AO
     â€¢ Bushnell Trophy 6-18x42 AO  
     â€¢ Swift 686 High Recoil 6.5-20x44 AO  
     â€¢ Hawke Air Max 4-12x40 AO  
     â€¢ Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 AO

Offline ezman604

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2009, 11:15:48 AM »
Well, I had an interesting afternoon with my new Walther. :)
Set up my Chrony & printer to test this and a couple of my other rifles. Ammo for the first tests were CPHP (7.9gr). First shot out of the pipe went super sonic with a pop at 1126.77 fps. Wow...
Then it got more realistic. Following 4 shot group went 970.26 - 961.24 - 968.32 - 951.42. Not too shabby for an unserviced and untuned refurb fresh from the box, I thought. But, I had a problem and it's a major safety issue in my book. The gun felt kinda gritty cocking from the beginning. With round #5 it felt rough at the end of the cocking cycle. I like a gun that has an auto safety as this one does. But, the safety does not feel very positive, probably due to the trigger group being primarily plastic. Haven't torn it down yet but imagine the sear is metal of some sort. Anyway, I had round #5 loaded, sighted through Chrony, flipped safety, pulled the trigger and nothing. I looked and the trigger released all the way but the piston did not. I had to decock the rifle, a not so safe thing to do. I cycled the piston one more time and prepared to shoot and the rifle did shoot as it's supposed to.
Next up I chronied some Gamo Rockets (9.6gr hunting ammo). They clocked in at 865.81 - 862.36 - 859.91 - 855.23 - 868.61. Good enough for me to feel comfortable hunting with.
I set up my target backstop and applied some Shoot-N-C 5" & 8" sheets. Set this up about 30 yards from my shooting position on my deck. Used the railing to steady my shots. The rifle came with a not too impressive 4X32 plain scope with Walther logo on the eyepiece and adjustment caps. It was not mounted to the rifle but the scope rings were attached to the scope. I mounted the scope and made some minor adjustments to align the reticle. First shot, I couldn't see where it hit. Same with second shot. I was aiming at the target centered of my 4'x4' backstop. I had to walk down to see the shots hit about 24" high and 18" left. MAN, that's way off. I looked at the scope mounts to make sure I had attached and secured them correctly. Then I removed the adjustment caps. The windage and elevation had been cranked to probably their limits by the former owner. LOL Not sure what ammo he was shooting but this accuracy along with the uncertain firing cycle is probably why the previous owner returned it.
I made a rough adjustment to center for both and fired athird round. Hit about 2" up and left. A couple more adjustments and shots and the rifle zeroed right in. Again, through the course of shooting, the piston failed a few more times. Considering what I paid for this tack driver, the cost of shipping back, the wait time for a replacement and the possibility of getting one in worse condition, I've decided to hang onto it a little longer. I feel this gun has some great potential after I get the time to tear it down to service it properly. I'll perform my semi-tune job while I'm at it. If I can smooth out the firing cycle and get rid of the inconsistencies, I will mount a better scope and use this gun to hunt and plink. It has potential....
Oh, one last round I fired was a Gamo Armor Piercing PBA that clocked in at 1041.91. Getting ready to do some cackle-laton to see what energy it produced.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline thebookdoc

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2009, 12:04:44 PM »
Wow... that was almost the opposite experience I had -- the velocity was going UP and getting less consistent as I shot. And the scope... I didn't even bother to mount it.

One thing I forgot to mention...the GAMO rail I'd installed to stop slippage...um, slipped. I'm a little puzzled as to what to do with that right now as I have the feeling I have to chop it off. It is slid about an inch back from the grooves. I'm sure it must be terribly stripped...Aluminum just won't cut it on these magnum springers... Well, at least not before the tune.

Anybody know about what would happen if I drilled a scope stop in the receiver?

So that needs a solution (as I do on my TF89s and RWS350), and I'm sure I'll want to get something to replace that plastic trigger!

The power plant I am pretty confident in...But the tune I get will replace the spring with a Marcari and it'll get a custom guide. I'm also planning on replacing the barrel with a TF89 .22 ... I'll make a custom stock and maybe a get or give a go at making a muzzle brake... This one is for fun! I could get 5 of them for the cost of one RWS350 ?!
THE GUNS:
     â€¢ Cometa Fusion Star (Gene tuned) 12/10/09
     â€¢ Cometa Fenix RWS 94 2/8/10
     â€¢ RWS Diana 48 .177 1/8/10 [TRADE for RWS 350]
     â€¢ Walther Force 1000 .177 11/11/09
     â€¢ TF89 .22 10/26/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ TF89 .177 (Gene tuned) 9/6/09
     â€¢ Remington Vantage 1200 .177 8/22/09 (Gene tuned 1/6/10)
     â€¢ Daisy 953 (pneumatic) 8/02/08
     â€¢ Gamo Big Cat 2/5/10 (broken...free...maybe gas piston?!)

THE SCOPES:  
     â€¢ Sightron SII 4-16x42 AO  
     â€¢ Leupold VX-II 3-9x33 Ultralight EFR AO
     â€¢ Bushnell Trophy 6-18x42 AO  
     â€¢ Swift 686 High Recoil 6.5-20x44 AO  
     â€¢ Hawke Air Max 4-12x40 AO  
     â€¢ Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 AO

Offline ezman604

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2009, 12:36:56 PM »
Good deal Richard,
Let me know about the parts you find to replace. I would also like to get a replacement spring, guide and some sort of trigger/guard/safety parts. The piston seal and breach seal must be okay on this one, to generate thekind of numbersit chronied. Not too worried about that. I'd also like to strip this one down and do some custom work on the furniture. Let me know also what wood you replace yours with. Any suggestions and hints for improvement will be greatly appreciated. DEFINATELY a gun to buy if you want to hone your maintenance/tuning/customizing skills. Not a large initial investment to worry about losing. And the power out of the box is great.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline WVscott

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2009, 10:45:16 PM »
what spring and seal does JM sell for these?  I have one coming and expect I'll have to tear it down also.  May just keep mine with iron sights or a peep if it'll stay on.  
      thanks, Scott
Regards, Scott

Offline ezman604

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2009, 01:58:02 AM »


Me too...if anyone finds suitable replacement parts, please post so we will know what to get.
Have to tell you about my dealing with Sportsman's Guide on this rifle. I sent customer service a message about the sticking or seizing piston and the possibility of bodily damage when decocking the rifle. Told them I was impressed with the numbers it chronied and would keep the rifle for fear of exchanging it with one that does not have as good of a power plant. I told them my plans for disassembly and servicing to proper lube it and to see if I could fix the sticking piston. I told them I knew it would probably void any warranty they gave and I assumed all responsibility for my safety during and after the maintenance.
Their response was very impressive. They apologized for the issues and thanked me for letting them know. They were going to inform the product group and have them check out the remaining stock to see if there are any similar safety concerns with them. They have a 100% customer satisfaction guarantee. They offered to send me a call tag to have this gun picked up. They offered a complete refund or replacement. They told me my planned maintenance will NOT void my warranty with them, just in case the tune did not fix the sticking piston and gritty cocking. They also gave me a 10% coupon that's good for 1 year.
Now, I'd say THAT is customer service at it's best!!!!!
I have torn the rifle down and will try to post the disassembly steps and what I found and did to the piece.Along with the chrony results and shootability post-tuning.
So far, I'd again recommend this purchase.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave

Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline WVscott

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2009, 12:00:58 PM »
Dave,
    Looking forward to what you find when you tear it down.  Mine should be here in a day or two.  I'll probably shoot it a little and then take it apart and tune it.  Hopefully, we'll be able to find a JM seal replacement by measuring the OEM seal.  
        thanks, Scott
Regards, Scott

Offline ezman604

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RE: Walther Force 1000 .177 Refurbs $69.97
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2009, 02:10:09 PM »
Scott,
I just finished putting it back together. The sear is made up of two layers of metal pressed together. The two pieces of metal did not come together well at the piston catch. I filed some and then dremel tooled to get the catch squared and smooth. Then I polished it on my buffing wheel with jewelers rouge. I filed all burrs off of everything I could find. I dressed the spring ends out on a bench grinder to smooth them out, hit them with a drum sander with my dremel and finished them off by polishing on the buffer wheel. The ends are glassy smooth. :)
I polished the tophat and the washers at each end of the spring.
I lubed everything up with moly, added a light coating of moly tar to the spring and put everything back together. I cocked and decocked it a few times, andMAN what a difference!!! No creaking or grinding during the cocking. Trigger and safety feel really positive. Even though it was 8:30 pm and dark out, I couldn't wait till the weekend to fire it once. I stepped out on my deck (live in a rural area) and loaded up and fired into the ground. I was greated witha flash of fire and sonic pop. But it sure feels smooth and not a bit of spring twang. Shot one handed also and noticed no twist. VERY smooth now.
I may order some new seals from JM for my Benji and Daisy and think they are about the same size as the Walther. But, my chrono numbers for the Walther last weekend were fine enough with me. Don't really need to worry about the seals, just yet anyway. :)
If anyone DOES experiment on this one, let us know what parts you found that help the performance. I'm VERY happy with my purchase. Might even buy another since I have an additional10% off.
LOL
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l