WEBLEY Does Not Make or Manufacture any air gun in the UK

[Gene_SC]

The fact is that WEBLEY do NOT manufacture their guns in the UK and that the company is owned by foreign shareholders. The only British thing about them is that they happen to trade from an address in the West Midlands. This enables them to tell us they have a direct connection with that old gunmaker Webley & Scott.

The simple matter is that most airgunners in the UK are unhappy with what has happened to Webley & Scott in the past 3 years or so and the fact that British jobs have gone to Turkey. I'm happy to say that most of us are not drawn into this fraud, only ignorant newcommers (no dis-respect meant) looking for a first gun are buying their products in the main... The vast majority of experienced airgunners know when they are being shafted.

Their guns are made by HATSUN in Turkey and these guns are marketed elsewhere in the world under a different name and badge.These guns are actually being sold by other foreign companies as a different named gun.

If they were honest and upfront with us they would simply transfer their offices to Turkey and sell turkish guns under the Hatsan badge.

[kiwi]

Yep yer pretty well right Gene...
Webley Scott went broke..Making high prise guns the market didn't want
in big enough numbers to keep the company a float...
They needed a lower prise bread and butter line as well as the high prise range..
Hatsan bought the remains & name after Webley Scott went belly up..
Then used what was left of the webley parts then used the name "Webley"
on there higher prise gun range.
The webley guns are gone..And if it wasn't for Hatsan so would the name....
Yep there are NO webley guns anymore....just the name...

Hatsan seems to becoming the turkish version of Bam...everyone goes to them for rebranded
guns...ie - Wincheaster / daisy

Pete

[Gene_SC]

Ya Pete, I still keep seeing new posts about another new Webley model. Some of our new members could get caught up in the whole mess. The Webley/Scott guns today could not hold a candle to the ones that were produced in  Birmingham UK. I just do not want folks to think Webley is back up and running when it is just Marketing ploys to make the new air gunner think that they found a gold mine.. When in fact it is just fools gold..

[Terry_ND]

Is there a handy way to tell which are the British guns and which are the Turkish guns?

Terry_ND

[RedFeather]

My understanding is that Webley originally outsourced their manufacturing to Turkey. Sadly, the knowledge about assembling them did not transfer along with the machinery. As a result, the initial Turkish Webley's were of poor quality. Hatsan has come a long way of late and their own new designs look promising. The Turkish Webleys remain a sore point.

[VINNY]

That is good information Gene.The Webly Jaguar is a $129. gun. I wouldn't expect it to be an upper  line gun as Webly's of the past. I assume it is in the Crosman-Gamo class.
Hatsan must be doing something right though . The appearantly make a LOT of airguns for a LOT of  OTHER manufacturers, under BIG names- Daisy, Walther, Winchester, etc. and they are [from what I understand ] the only manufacturer that does what their rated to do- consistantly.When I buy another Wincester, I want the Hatsan made one, not the Chinese made one.Yep, they have their problems, but they all do.

[RedFeather]

The lower line Webleys are, alas, cheap guns. Even the "better" ones. Just compare prices for a used English made Patriot compare a Turk. Almost a 1/2 difference. Here they had a rock-solid, excellent gun and couldn't produce it to save their souls. Just because Hatsan makes guns for many labels doesn't mean they are good guns. Winchester is only a name. Before getting into cheap guns, Winchester dabbled with rebadging Diana air rifles (the Diana 25, 27, 25 and 50 became Winchester 425, 427, 435 and 450 with much nicer stocks, too.) There is no comparison between guns of the early venture and the later department store models. Not knocking Hatsan, they build some pretty nice guns under their own brand and now appearing with the Winchester logo. That's a good decision on Winchester's part. But don't equate something like the Jaguar with those. You will be disappointed.

[Progun]

Terry the answer to your question: Is there an easy way to tell the difference between the English made Webley and the Turkish product? Yes, the English version will have stamped on the barrel block Webley and Scott LTD, Birmingham England. A couple of years ago,I ordered a new Webley Patriot from Straight Shooters when the were selling for $330 or so. For one week I tried to love this gun but but but, it jus wasn't a real Patriot. It was rough, smoked like an old train, and had a trigger that you wanted to curse but the ultimate deal breaker was in the power dept.I not once was able to chrony a shot that produced over 17fpe in 500 attempts. BTW this was in .22 cal. Normal stock form for the English Patriot should be 26+fpe. Fortunately when I contacted Kevin @ Straight Shooters and politely explained my dissatisfaction with the rifle he did the right thing and acknowledged that this rifle in it's present form was no where near the formerly English made model.It all worked out. I returned the Patriot and swapped my $$ towards the Beeman R-9GF and was very happy.I did eventually get an English made Webley Patriot thanks to Chris aka Fatback. Thanks again Chris for selling it to me. I love that rifle.Accept no substitutes.

[Gene_SC]

Good choice David...

[ranedouglas]

i believe you meant to spell hatsan.    i'm not trying to offend anyone, but we need to share what we know and get his webley stuff nailed down.    i have at least two products that are in question :  1)   the pcp's.  they are designed, or even made by FX (sweedish), yet they have a 'made in england' tag.    what's up w/ that ?    and i've seen a youtube, or an advertisement video from webley that explains one model being "made right here in the good 'ol u.k.", or something to that effect (i'll find it again).    and 2) what about this webley 'tempest centennial' pistol ?   i have been unable to get any feedback on where these are made - from anyone.   it's only being produced for the 2010 year.   and if it's true that there are no more u.k. parts - then these 'transitional' webley springers are going to be quite neat.   i'll be getting them today and will post the photos and rundown asap.       the alecto pistols and paradigm rifles are cool......no matter where they are made.   if i can fund an order for 50 FAC alecto pistols, they'll run some through their manufacturing facilities.   these shoot almost 800 fps in the .177 'unleashed' version.   it's a 12 ftlb pistol w/ adjustable everything.   see this :  http://www.webley.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64&Itemid=61     - paul in ft.worth, tx.

[Gene_SC]

It is as simple as this. The original Webley or Webley/Scott are no longer in existence. The name has be bought and all rights to produce products under that name. My intention is to let the new air gunner or those who are not familiar with this past manufacture of fine air guns know that it would be the name only you would be buying and not the once premium air guns.

For example. I bought a new Webley/Scott Longbow a couple years ago. The only thing that was close to being a Webley/Scott was a nice stock.. The trigger was not the original trigger that was on the guns when Webley/Scott went down. Everything was badly machined on the power plant. A complete disaster and I paid $350.00 for it. Sold it to a fellow for $150.00 six months later.

At that time I started to do some digging and found that the only thing in the UK that is Webley is a mailing PO BOX...  That way they can say the guns are from the UK.. Believe me the ones who bought the name will do anything to deceive us into thinking you are buying a premium product when it is no different than a Gamo, Hatsan, or Chinese guns. Not saying those guns are bad but you would defiantly know the difference if you shot a real Webley/Scott air rifle made in the UK than the ones you can buy today.. I have said my peace...

[ranedouglas]

i never paid retail for these turkish webleys, but i understand your point of view, and the glasses you are looking through.   i would be COMPLETELY BENT, myself if i had paid $350-400 for one of these.     now, the motivation i had for making these availalbe was this simple fact :   it's a great gun for $200, which is the target range i have.   i make a very minimal amount which doesn't pay the bills, but it helps me w/ the adminstration and shipping fees.   i grieve when i see folks at the local chain of sporting goods stores looking at gamos, comtemplating paying $200+ for one.    that's where i come in.    while i enjoy a fine airgun just as much as the next guy, i cannot justify paying ove $300 for a good one.     you go to the b.o.i. on that other forum and see that i have been able to offer great customer service.     while a good product should be able to sell itself, i've had to provide outstanding customer service to enable some trust in these turkish webs.     that stock is now finally depleting.   the birmingham webs sell theirselves.   webley tells me these new 'quattro' triggers will not fit into these older turk webs....but i'm wondering about that now.   while these alecto pistols and paradigm rifles are very cool, if hatsan is producing these, there's no sense in buying them via webley.   http://www.webley.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64&Itemid=61 .     check 'em out.    i'm going to have give judgement upon webley more time.      -paul.

[ranedouglas]

hatsan makes good springers and pcp's.  better than than the chinese.    i'm a little bent w/ the fact they don't just market their own airguns.    they make great shotguns too.   i'm sure that if you can afford it, you could pay a lot more and get a better gun, but at least these hatsan guns will throw lead out at what's printed on the box, and they're accurate.      but all this plastic stock, trigger, and crap, have to go.    - paul.

[ranedouglas]

gene ,  i can guarantee you that i'm NOT going to put my little hobby/venture out across the chopping block for webley (if i were situated in a scenario that would enable me to visit this handfull of people in a face-to-face, up-close, and personal way, that might change).   i'm needing a lot of facts from webley.uk before i send them my money.    they seem to have some exclusive airguns that aren't available from hatsan direct.          - paul.

[ranedouglas]

this is what some of the problem is.   birmingham being stamped into the barrelblock (not etched or printed) is a good place to start.    the bluing on these birmingham airguns is very deep black - like black chrome molly - similar to an air arms underlever.     the triggers are usually a grey/dull silvery metal and are good triggers on the birming's, but i understand that some venom triggers were gold plated.    the hatsan triggers are better than most of the chinese and gamo guns, but not the fine old school webley triggers.