Buyers advice Remington NPSS / BSA Lighnting XL

[Shootswithair]

Hi guys,

First poster here and I'm going to start off good with a question. Past 3 - 4 weeks I've been reading up on airguns trying to decide which one to buy with. It has to be a decent enough gun to shoot 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards but cheap enough incase I don't have the opportunity to shoot it anymore in a year or so (changed living environment).

After having read the review Gene SC wrote on the build quality of the remington NPSS that one made it back to my shortlist which is now narrowed down to

BSA lightning XL .177
Remington/Crosman NPSS .177
Weihrauch 77K .177 (second hand)

I pretty much eliminated the Weihrauch out of that list because of the weight and size. If someone who shoots these guns frequently could anwser the following questions I'ld be much obliged.
1) Which gun is the more quiet one, the Lightning or the Crosman NPSS
2) Performance wise these 3 guns have about the same power / accuracy, correct ?
3)I can find lots of reviews regarding the durability of the Lightning and the Weihrauch. Has anyone put 1000+ rounds through the Remington/Crosman and if so how is the breech holding up ? Still locking firmly or do the screws need tightening frequently to avoid barrel drop ?

And finaly, considering the gun has to ship a long way, are there any retailers who would be willing to check the seals of the gun prior to shipping in the event I were to order the NPSS from a US retailer ?

Thanks In advance,
John

[Big_Bill]

Welcome to the GTA Forums John !

Not having owned any of your selections, I will not be able to comment on your question.

So I will just WELCOME YOU to the BEST Air Gun Forum on the Internet !!!! And It's a GREAT PLACE TO BE !!!!!

I hope to see you here often, now that your a member of our air gun family.

Bill

[Gene_SC]

First a Big Welcome to the GTA Johan. I may be able to answer a couple of your questions.

1. There are only three dealers that I know of that would offer that inspections as you required. Straightshooters, R&L Air Guns, Precision Air Guns and Archer Air Guns.

2. As far as fps goes the NPSS in .177 and .22 is stronger than the BSA Lightning and HW. I can not speculate on an used gun but the HW 77 is a heavier gun than the BSA or NPSS

3. Since I own all three of the guns you mentioned the HW would be the most accurate and then the BSA, followed by the NPSS. But I only shoot paper out to 30 -40 yards.

4. The breech has never been an issue with any of the guns I have owned with exception of one Gamo which was a factory defect.

5. I think at this point you would be very lucky to find a new BSA Lightning that has been made in the UK. BSA is owned by Gamo and are now being built in Spain. Personally I would not buy a BSA Lightning now that they are made in Spain.

6. BSA and the HW air guns have earned the right to durability and accuracy but the new NPSS is new and will need a few more years of use to determine durability.

7. As far as noise level goes I think that the NPSS may be a bit quieter than the other two. But not much..

[Shootswithair]

Hey guys,

 Thanks for the welcome and the quick replies. I have to say Gene that I did not expect to get a complete answer to all my questions in one go. I'm impressed !

You are definitely right about the BSA and them moving production from Birmingham to Spain, saw a youtube video on the build quality difference. Not pretty.
From what you answered me it looks like I'll be looking at a NPSS or a HW77. From what I read the weight of the HW77 can be compared to the weight of my Diana 35 which is doable.

Thanks again and I'll keep you guys posted.

[Mark 611]

Why not think about a Cometa Fenix 400 compact thier about there about size of a lightning xl slightly larger, more powerful and quieter evry well made and have exelent triggers when properly adjusted and accurate as all get out!

[Shootswithair]

Thanks for pointing me in that direction Mark, the cometa fenix 400 does look like a valid alternative. Another good thing about it is that I can order it from spain for about 210 USD all in. If I'm not mistaking the compact comes with a MuzzleBrake which is illegal here so I'ld be sticking to the regular model. I take it you have one of these and are pleased with it ?

I'll try to find some reviews for it.
Modified shortlist :p
Cometa fenix 400
Remington NPSS

thanks !

[tjk]

Johan, I would hold off on the Remington simply for the fact that the gas strut they use is fairly new. I mean the idea has been around for a while, but the application in this grade of rifle is in its infancy. Seems like I hear more and more how the NP system is losing power over time and heavy use. No gas system will last forever,...even including the Theobens, but the Theoben rifles have been at it for a while, and for that, they probably will out last several NP struts.  The BSA's are hit or miss from the reviews I've read, the HW's are sturdy but somewhat on the heavy side, and I've given you my reason for waiting on the Crosman/Remington line. Mark made an excellent suggestion in the Cometas,...but more so,...expand your search and find the ideal rifle for your needs. It doesn't cost anything to research alot of different guns. For all we know, you might end up with a Mendoza (Mex), Norica (Spanish), or a Hatsan(Turkish). Most come with waranties so if you don't like a particular gun,...send it back for another one! I think when I get  my short list gun collection finished,....I might just pick up one of those Norica Tribal rifles to tinker with. Last piece of advice,.....keep your options open. Best Wishes with your search, tjk

[Mark 611]

The moderator on these guns is not illegal here I have one of these rifles in .22cal and they can be bought here in the U.S from Pomona Airguns or the Manou Bro's who are the importer of these Airguns and cost about the same as the Npss guns, I'm getting ready to buy 2 more of these rifles another one in .22cal and one in .177cal that's how much I think of these rifles! Thier exelent air rifles hands down I've owned a English BSA lightning xl and  an NPSS guns the BSA was ok I sent my Npss back and I won't buy another one I'll tell ya that but Tom is right you'll find one that fits you.

[DanoInTx]

I say HW all of the way!

[Shootswithair]

The shooters here are all big HW fans. Prices for them are steep and seeing I'm picking up again on a hobby I haven't done in years I'ld like to keep it down a bit and then invest in a better gun a year or so along the way. We unfortunately don't get the opportunity to shoot it as much as you guys. We live in a very gunfobic society and plinking in your garden, cellar or basement is not allowed by law. Air guns are a bit of a loophole you are allowed to purchase them freely without any power restriction but you are not allowed to shoot them anywhere on your own property no matter how big it is or how isolated you live. Thanks to decades of media influence people here don't make a difference between a .177 pellet gun, a winchester 30/30 or an AR15 assault rifle as far as the general public is concerned they are all guns. Not that they are informed enough tell you what the difference is between them anyway.

So far that Cometa fenix is looking very good price/quality wise. And yes it might be a good idea to see how reliable the NPSS guns will turn out to be. I'm going to read a couple more review and probably make a purchase sometime next week.

[Mark 611]

If you decide on the Cometa you won't be disapointed these are a hi quality airgun I have several HW/Beeman AG's and RWS's and this rifle rates right up there with them IMHO , they have a exelent 2 stage adjustable tirgger, the moderator makes them very quiet not whisper quiet  but quiet! I just did a side by side comparison with a BSA lightning xl also in .22cal both rifles were stock accept they have been lubed and have had about the same amount of rds fired thru them and the cometa was alot Quieter than the BSA and its shooting about 80 to 100fps faster than the BSA don't get wrong the BSA is a nice rifle but if your gonna get one get one made in England they pop up forsale once in awhile, I don't speak on the Npss rifle due to the fact they have alot of problems that can arise right out of the box especialy the triggers and thats just for starters!

[Gene_SC]

Where do you live Johan?

[daveshoot]

I want an NPSS because I already have a "few" springers and I want to try that technology. Also, I believe in supporting Crosman because they have been so responsive toairgunners in the last few years.But if I was in your shoes, I too would look hard at the Cometa. I think the Compact Star is the lighter and shorter carbine version and also has the moderator.

I have a BSA Lightning in .22. I have not been swept off my feet by it, although it is a very nice rifle. I think it needs a (expensive) professional tune to be all it can be. It does not appear to be a DIY project. It isn't broken or anything, and is a decent shooter.

The HW77is a much loved rifle and Weihrauch is top drawer. I just don't happen to care for underlever rifles. I would rather shoot a well-maintained RWS34 and save some money.

I have several of the RWS branded Cometas, and theyare among my favorite rifles. I bought them all used and the RWS94 (a version of the Cometa 400) needed nothing done on delivery. The new ones have better springs and beautiful stocks. My best RWS94 has a marvelous trigger, and is a very nice handling light rifle. I have corresponded with the Cometa factory and they are nice people to deal with.

I probably ought to get rid of a few gunsbefore looking at any more... sigh.

[Shootswithair]

I live in Belgium Gene,

What it comes down to is that the police from region to region can determine if its legal to shoot your gun in your backyard. Now in most regions its not allowed (region might not be the right word, ts a small country) but even if you do one where it is allowed the reasoning goes like this.

- If you are allowed to shoot at home and you use this privelege then, according to the law, you turn your garden into a firing range
- A firing range needs a level 2 environmental permit  (this is the kinda permit you need for industries like a chicken farm, woodwork shop and other small industries)
- An environmental permit can be obtained from the city, has to be approved by the mayor. (costs a ton a year, application needs to be handed in in 7 fold, plan of the grounds included, ...)
- And in all honesty you are never going to get a permit like that approved to shoot pellets.

You could shoot in a big garden like the one I have ( 120 X 40 yards ) but it only takes one call from a neighbor and you get the police at your door, possibly confiscating your gun. Living in the united states must be good as a shooter.

but back to the guntalk, prices here for the cometa are steep but ordering it directly from spain will cut my costs by 50%. The tactical version looks good but unfortunately MuzzleBrakes are not allowed here. If I'm still shooting in a year from now I might get me that Remington/crosman NPSS. I still have my fathers diana 35 it was purchased before 1966 been on a dusty moist attic for years and it still looks decent. Thats the kinda quality I like

[Gene_SC]

My first thoughts when I read your reply Johan was how sad, but I immediatly thought how fortunate we are here in the US. We have to fight for our rights these days but at least we are able to own and shoot our bb guns. Many towns such as the one I live in here it strickly against the law to shoot within the city limits any proljectiles, but in my case I live where I have plenty of room to shoot and there are not homes within a half mile in the direction I shoot.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you are on good terms with your neighbors...