ALL MEMBERS PLEASE READ THIS

[CharlieDaTuna]

As many of you “early birds” know, when Gene and I originally built this forum, it was built with the intent of “Of the members, for the members” and all of us were dedicated to making it a forum better than any other forum out there. Our motto is “Ain’t this a great place to be”. It’s funny but I don’t see that motto published like it used to be. Have we forgotten??? I think that we have met with a great deal of success in striving to meet that goal and we continue to grow rapidly. And we still maintain that this is your forum not Gene’s, Peak Chicks or mine. We just administrate it. But it is your forum and we thank you.

However, with that said, I have received a few e-mails the last few weeks regarding the forum. As we all know, the forum has grown quite rapidly. With growth comes issues and that is to be expected and unless controlled, it can easily get out of hand. We don’t have a serious problem… well maybe one… but I feel that we need to address them early so that we maintain the integrity that we have enjoyed in the past.

To those of you that have not reviewed the rules and regulations for the GTA, I suggest that you read them.

Please be careful with your language and in some cases, phraseology. Most of us do not like derogatory terms. We’re not in church but we’re not in the corner bar either.

It seems that many people are posting anything anywhere that they happen to be. It is important that our posts are placed in the category in which it fits or applies to. Then other people can both view it in it proper area and also find it later in a search process. If you have a general discussion item, go to the “Back Room” or a Gamo post, place them in the “Gamo” forum and so on. The “Airgun” forum is a category for all guns and related item for posts that have no category and airgun info in general. Let’s not clutter it up with a bunch of stuff that is not relevant. So Please…. Do your part to make the forum as easy to navigate as possible

We used to take the time to shuffle posts around and place them in their proper forums but it does take time and we shouldn’t need to if you do your part.

And finally,,, in the past, it has been the policy of Gene and myself to not delete any posts and never have but rather move them to the “Non-Productive” file. However….. as of today and from this point on… any reference to MuzzleBrakes, whether the word MuzzleBrake is used or any other terminology regarding them and including construction or parts will be deleted in it’s entirety by either Peak Chick or myself along with any post responses. If that is something that you want to discuss with someone then do it outside of this forum via e-mail or what ever source you choose. Just not here. Now I’m sure there will be a couple that are going to jump up and down and cry foul or freedom of speech or whatever but if you don’t like it, I’m sorry and if that bothers you and you can’t or don’t want accept it then you can move on and go somewhere else.

OK… now you can burn my house down…lol…

[melloroadman]

Thank you for protecting this forum. Marvin

[TexasShooter72]

No problem!  I will be paying closer attention to my postings.  Thanks!

[DanoInTx]

The "MuzzleBrake" that Bob is referring to is NOT the type that improves accuracy, it's the type that lowers the report of the muzzle blast.  That type of appliance is considered a Class 3 weapon here in the U.S. just like a machine gun.  To own a Class 3 weapon requires a procedure involving a bunch of legal hoopla and a $200 fee. Many people do not go the legal route to purchase these sorts of appliances and in doing so are breaking the law.  To manufacture one of these appliances requires more than just the normal legal hoopla because now you're not just buying a Class 3 weapon, you are manufacturing a Class 3 weapon....again, if you don't go the legal route you are violating the law.  We try not to encourage criminal behavior in the airgun community because it can bring public focus on a sport/hobby that we all truly love.  Add criminal behavior to public focus and you get more legal restrictions and we just don't need that here in our community.  Having said all of that there are loopholes that some manufacturers use to make selling these appliances permanently affixed to the airguns they sell, making it impossible to adapt them for use on a firearm....not sure how that works, I'm no lawyer and have never played one on TV:)  I'm not perfect, don't claim to be, but I don't take pictures of the speedometer on my car when I am speeding then post them on the Internet car forums and say,"Look how fast I can go!", just not good for anyone.

[Izzie45895]

Well, with this statement in mind.................

Gene, please refund my payment for the MuzzleBrake that I ordered from you(via PayPal) for my R9, which was never received. Thank you for bringing this up, Bob.

Thank You,

Iz

[Bhawanna]

we all enjoy the "bling" we adorn our guns with including the "thingie" on the end of the barrel that assist with the cocking effort on break barrels.  how do we talk about that item?....just curious because that is probably the first mod we all do to our guns....

[Jaymo]

I was thinking about making one of those thingies from solid steel rod. That way it acts as a cocking handle AND a muzzle weight. If I ream the hole out a little small, I can shrink fit it to the barrel to act as a choke, also.

[arathol]

A muzzle brake is a bit thats attached to the muzzle of a fire arm. Its ported to redirect propellant gases to the side away from the projectile. This improves accuracy and when the exiting gases are directed accordingly they can be used to reduce muzzle rise and recoil (this is where the brake term applies). This is how it looks in action-
 

As applied to airguns, a "muzzle brake" is mostly cosmetic. It does aid in cocking a spring rifle slightly, and usually protects the barrel crown from damage. On some rifles, target rifles especially, the  "muzzle brake" is actually a barrel weight to help stabilize the gun. There isn't really enough propellant gas to seriously affect recoil or muzzle rise from most airguns except the most powerful CO2 and HPA powered models. Muzzle brakes sold for installation on air rifles are perfectly legal and most on-line dealers have one sort or another in inventory.

 Whats referred to here as   "MuzzleBrake" is a   sound reduction device, referred to by some as an LDC. Any device that lowers the decibel output of a gun, be it fire-arm or air rifle, by a certain degree is by definition a LDC, and as such is not illegal but heavily regulated. It is a fire-arm in itself according to BATF, and you can legally own and use one if you shell out the    $200 for the    tax stamp each device requires. If you didn't pay the fee its illegal, just as an unregistered fire-arm is illegal. Its also just as illegal to build one, or to have in your possession the parts to build one. Technically, a Coke bottle and a roll of duct tape in the same tool box can get you jail time. To be considered an illegal device it must be capable of being removed intact and used for at least one shot from a fire-arm, even if its destroyed when the gun is fired.

Whats not a problem for airguns are shrouded barrels. A shrouded barrel is a barrel with a sound reduction chamber build around it. Its an integral part of the gun and cannot be removed. As such, its completely legal to own a shrouded gun.

[Dave1899]

Bhawanna - 8/14/2008 9:48 PM

we all enjoy the "bling" we adorn our guns with including the "thingie" on the end of the barrel that assist with the cocking effort on break barrels. how do we talk about that item?....just curious because that is probably the first mod we all do to our guns....

I'm confused about this one...does that mean this Gamo Shadow 1000 MB is an illegal air gun and can't be discussed about here?~~~> http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=1577

Not trying to be a smartbutt here just confused

David

BTW “Ain’t this a great place to be” I thought was BigBill's saying...I'll have to use it more often

[CharlieDaTuna]

There is no problem with discussing muzzle brakes as they a a totally different thing and like comparing apples to grapes. Muzzle brakes have nothing to do with sound suppression.

[daveshoot]

At least the Germans have learned to be more considerate of the neighbors.

http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/001402/thm/1402075.jpg


sorry in advance...

[gunsup0331]

I going to take a wild guess by assuming that some of my posts are indirectly responsible for this topic and i apologize.  I will regulate the content of my posts more strictly.

Oh off topic but pertinent to a previous post: The registration of firearms is not regulated by the federal govt, its a state thing. Just so no one gets confused. AZ does not require registration for firearms that you aquire privately, dont know about buying one new though.
 Sound reduction devices are Federally regulated  (by the BATFE clowns aka ATF for short)

[derekmcminn]

Now I'm really confused.

It seems that the first post is contradicted by the post above.

[PeakChick]

I'll add a bit of clarifcation.  Muzzle Brake, designed to aid accuracy, reduce muzzle flip, act as a barrel weight or as a cocking aid is perfectly legal and fair game to discuss. The spirit of Bob's post is that we want to avoid any discussion of devices, homemade, or professionally produced that act as sound reduction devices. Yes, if one has gone through the proper BATF licensing and payment of appropriate fees, great, good for you. Please discuss your legally obtained and owned sound reduction device on the forum for of owners of said devices (surely there is one... LOL ) . What the spirit of this post is intended is to avoid any discussion of illegally produced or owned devices and the potential bad publicity and legal entanglements it could draw to our sport, our forum and our members.

[DanoInTx]

PeakChick - 8/14/2008  11:04 PM
 What the spirit of this post is intended is to avoid any discussion of illegally produced or owned devices and the potential bad publicity and legal entanglements it could draw to our sport, our forum and our members.

Amen Sister!

Oh yea, almost forgot,"Aint this a great place to be!".