Author Topic: AA 410 over Talon SS  (Read 10630 times)

Offline crazy4salmon

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AA 410 over Talon SS
« on: October 03, 2008, 10:58:20 AM »
I have been wanting to slip to the dark-side for a while. Now that winter is sliding closer and work is slowing down. I am finally going to pull the trigger on a PCP. I want one that is powerful and quite. After reading as much as I possibly can. I hope to only get one, so I want it to be a good one. My question is how quite is the AA410  in .22 with the shrouded barrel.

Thanks Dan

Offline daved

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 06:36:11 PM »
Can't give you a direct answer, Dan, but how about a comparative one :-)?  I have an older AA S400E .177.  That's the older bolt action, full power, fully shrouded model.  This thing is quiet enough that the first time I shot it, I thought something was wrong.  At the time, I still had my Talon SS with 18" .22 barrel.  MUCH louder!  That was part of the reason I let the Talon go.  I'd say it's at least as quiet as a good springer.  And the newer ones have a larger shroud that's supposed to have a better baffling system, in short, it's supposed to be even quieter than mine.

If you're looking for truly mouse fart quiet, look at the FX T12 Whisper.  I haven't shot one, but I've heard reports that it's about the quietest production PCP available.  Price is about the same as a new AA 410 ERB.  BTW, I consider the FX and AA guns very comparable, I also have a .177 Cyclone.  They're both great rifles, I truly wouldn't say one is better than the other, just different.  Power levels are about the same, I think you'd be happy with either one.  

Both have outstanding triggers, incredible accuracy, and excellent fit and finish.  The AA is a very classic, classy looking rifle, with a very nice right hand beech stock.  It's long, about 44", and fairly heavy, but that's compared to the Talons I used to have.  In truth, it's almost exactly the same length as a Gamo CFX.  The FX is much lighter, almost shockingly so when you first pick it up, and about 4" shorter.  It has a synthetic ambi stock with some rather nice grippy inserts right where they do the most good.  The combination of weight, balance, and 8 shot repeater make this a great field rifle.  I know the Cyclone is a more expensive rifle than the Whisper, I think it's because of the cocking system, although I can't quite see that alone adding almost $400 to the price.  In .22, both rifles are rated at about 30 fpe, if my experience is any indication, they'll probably exceed that.

Just checked, the Whisper does NOT have adjustable power, both the 410 and the Cyclone do.  BTW, if you want to come pick some apples and try the Cyclone and 400, let me know :-).  Later.

Dave

Offline johncedarhill

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008, 12:44:46 AM »
Great response Dave. One thing to consider is the multishot availability of the AA versus the single shot Talon family. I must say there is a noticeable difference in the noise between the low power and the high power on the AA. The mechanical noise of the modded Talon SS which I have is more noticeable. My Talon was the quiestest air rifle until the AA but at full power the AA is a little louder. Compared to a QB 78 stock rifle both are very quiet.
John
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Offline crazy4salmon

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2008, 02:28:40 AM »
Hey Dave, that FX is beautiful in the walnut stock. Now you are just making my decision even harder, and more expensive. I think the ability to turn down the power is big for me. My boys like to shoot in the garage, in the pellet trap. Notice I said IN the pellet trap, and not through the pellet trap. I have a shotgun that I don't use that is worth about 2500 bucks maybe I will just sell it and get both.

  I would love to make it to visit the Twisp area. I even have a buddy with a cabin at the base of the hill that Sun Mountain Lodge sits on. My kids both have football games every weekend till November. Then basketball starts.  This spring I might head your direction for a little fly fishing. I would love to stop in and say hi. Thanks for the great post.

Dan L

Offline hunter220

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2008, 09:13:59 AM »
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daved - 10/3/2008  11:36 PM
Can't give you a direct answer, Dan, but how about a comparative one :-)?  I have an older AA S400E .177.  That's the older bolt action, full power, fully shrouded model.  This thing is quiet enough that the first time I shot it, I thought something was wrong.  At the time, I still had my Talon SS with 18" .22 barrel.  MUCH louder!  That was part of the reason I let the Talon go.  I'd say it's at least as quiet as a good springer.  And the newer ones have a larger shroud that's supposed to have a better baffling system, in short, it's supposed to be even quieter than mine.

If you're looking for truly mouse fart quiet, look at the FX T12 Whisper.  I haven't shot one, but I've heard reports that it's about the quietest production PCP available.  Price is about the same as a new AA 410 ERB.  BTW, I consider the FX and AA guns very comparable, I also have a .177 Cyclone.  They're both great rifles, I truly wouldn't say one is better than the other, just different.  Power levels are about the same, I think you'd be happy with either one.  
Dave


The S400 are very nice rifles from what I understand.  However, if you are on a budget a talon with a shroud might be a good option too.  They are cheaper, you can get a nicer scope, and the aftermarket shroud makes it the about as loud as a person spitting.  You can't get much more quiet than that.  I suggest you check out talontunes.com and see what Tony has available.  You can order a customized talon to your liking, and he will get the trigger butter smooth, almost as good as a S400 IMO.  You could probably get one with a scope and shroud for around $900 or so.  Depending on what you hunt, the extra power in a talon is a plus.  However, if money is not an object and you are not concerned with power, I would go with the S400 or S410.

Offline johncedarhill

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 11:13:19 AM »
Pardon but I disagree. I have both-the talon SS modded has more mechanical noise than the AA (newest sidelever) and is louder than the AA on low power. At high power there is some air noise with the AA and it is louder than the talon by my latest sound measurements using the Radio Shack meter like the one that Straightshooters used for their tests. The percieved noise as measured with this crude instrument will vary depending on the surroundings and proximity to the pellet trap (rags in a box ). It is my observation that the shrouded barrel is fine but not as effective at high power on the AA. Shooting at low power at about 17 yds the rag pellet trap with cardboard front is more noticeable than the overall noise from the AA. Let me put this another way. If the Talons had less mechanical noise (I believe it is called hammer slapp), then I would guess the modded talon ss would be the quieter of the two at full AA power. I think I will now go back to digging and landscaping for the remainder of the daylight hours.
John
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Offline daved

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 03:50:54 PM »
The walnut IS pretty, but I've gotta tell ya, I'm really liking the synthetic stock.  Much as I love my AA S400, the Cyclone has very definitely become my "go to" gun.  The weight and balance with the Bushnell Legend scope is nearly perfect, and knowing I've got 8 shots ready to go really boosts the confidence.  I just bought 3 more mags, that gives me a total of 5 mags or 40 shots.  I get 40 or more shots per fill on high power.  Although I haven't done more than a few shots on lower power, I like the adjustment, it's a 3 position lever, high, medium, and low.  High with CPH's is 22+ fpe, I think med. is around 16, and low is under 12.  I expect to get a LOT of shots on low power, this is going to be my winter indoor gun.  Cyclones have been popping up on the classifieds lately, most have been in .22.  Funny thing, this rifle has definitely grown on me.  When I first got it, I really wasn't too sure.  But tightening up some loose screws and adjusting the trigger made all the difference, now I'm liking it more every time I shoot it.

All that said, the 410 has all the same features, and is quite a bit less expensive.  About the only thing you can't get with an AA is a synthetic stock, but I believe most people prefer wood stocks, anyway.  I wanted the synthetic because this is going to be my field gun, and I hate the thought of beating up a nice wood stock.  Dano got a Corcoran custom stock for his S400, so I talked him out of his OEM stock.  It's the current beech stock, much nicer than the older versions.  Like I said before, I think you'd be really happy with either one, but you're right, you'd be even happier with both, I know I am :-)!  And you're welcome to drop in any time you're in the area.  Later.

Dave

Offline hunter220

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 07:25:52 AM »
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johncedarhill - 10/4/2008  4:13 PM

Pardon but I disagree.  I have both-the talon SS modded has more mechanical noise than the AA (newest sidelever) and  is louder than the AA on low power.  At high power there is some air noise with the AA and it is louder than the talon by my latest sound measurements using the Radio Shack meter like the one that Straightshooters used for their tests.  The percieved noise as measured with this crude instrument will vary depending on the surroundings and proximity to the pellet trap (rags in a box ).  It is my observation that the shrouded barrel is fine but not as effective at high power on the AA.  Shooting at low power at about 17 yds the rag pellet trap with cardboard front is more noticeable than the overall noise from the AA.  Let me put this another way.  If the Talons had less mechanical noise (I believe it is called hammer slapp), then I would guess the modded talon ss would be the quieter of the two at full AA power.  I think I will now go back to digging and landscaping for the remainder of the daylight hours.


Like I said, if ordered from Tony the Talon is quieter.  He knows his stuff and makes it extremely quiet.  I have shot one tuned by Tony and an AA and the Talon by tony winds every time.  He has a hammer slap mod the eliminates the "mechanical noise" you are talking about.  As long as it is kept subsonic, a talon tuned talon or condor is quieter IME than an AA along with more power also.

Offline crazy4salmon

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008, 09:36:52 AM »
Larry, I have been talking to Tony about doing a Talon with an 18" barrel for me. The only problem is the time I would have to wait to get my new big boy toy. But I am sure the wait would be well worth it.  From what I understand after Tony is done doing his magic it just sounds like a person spitting.  Spitting at over 900 fps in .22.  I do like the tactical look of the Talon as well. I am flipping and flopping between the two of them.  I know that Daved has had two talons and got rid of them but still has his AA. But after Tony has done his magic I think a talon would be a keeper for me.

Dan L

Offline daved

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008, 11:01:23 AM »
I guess I ignored the Talon/Condor part of your original question, Dan.  Larry is right about a TalonTunes gun, I shot a friends Condor with the TalonTunes tune and shroud, it was nothing short of incredible.  980 fps with .22 Kodiaks, and just a hiss when you pull the trigger.  That said, there are a few things to keep in mind.

It's still a Talon/Condor which means A) it's a single shot, B) it has the well known lack of ergonomics, C) although you can adjust the power, it's a bit involved, and D) even though Tony does nice things with an Air Force trigger, it's still not on par with the AA or FX triggers, and you can't adjust it.  Don't get me wrong, I really liked my Talons, and I'm glad I had them.  But I really don't consider them keepers, they're good guns, but constantly tinkering with them gets old.  They're not that efficient, I can get the same power and more shots per fill with the Cyclone's 200 cc tank vs. the Talons 490.  BTW, by the time you pay Tony to build you a Condor or Talon with all the bells and whistles, you could certainly buy a new AA S410ERB, maybe even a Cyclone.  Just my thoughts on the subject, guys, take it for whatever you think it's worth :-).  Later.

Dave

Offline hunter220

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RE: AA 410 over Talon SS
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 09:17:21 AM »
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crazy4salmon - 10/5/2008  2:36 PM

Larry, I have been talking to Tony about doing a Talon with an 18" barrel for me. The only problem is the time I would have to wait to get my new big boy toy. But I am sure the wait would be well worth it.  From what I understand after Tony is done doing his magic it just sounds like a person spitting.  Spitting at over 900 fps in .22.  I do like the tactical look of the Talon as well. I am flipping and flopping between the two of them.  I know that Daved has had two talons and got rid of them but still has his AA. But after Tony has done his magic I think a talon would be a keeper for me.

Dan L


It depends on what you want in your PCP.  If you are looking for the stronger and more powerful rifle, the talon is the way to go.  If you want better ergonomics, better trigger, and a wood stock go with an AA.  Personally, I like the tactical look of the talon/condor and the sound they make when shrouded is amazingly quiet!  From about 50 feet away, my dad couldn't even hear the gun, just the pellet impact!  The pellet impact is actually louder than the rifle, so keep that in mind, especially if shooting into a metal pellet trap the talon will be very loud because of the high power behind the pellet.  The wait is well worth it IMO. It may take a few months, but when you have a trigger with a 1lb trigger pull, 40-50 shots with a 30fps spread or less, and a whisper quiet gun, it is well worth it IMO.  

The power is my favorite part of the condor/talon.  On high power, my condor will split a milk jug filled with water completely down the side from 25 yards, I have no other air rifle that will even put a crack in a milk jug.  I have lined up 3 milk jugs full of water, it will go through all 3.  The power in the talon/condor is absolutely amazing, and the new valve gets around 40-50 consistent shots IME.

Offline daved

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Hey, Dan, check this out...
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2008, 07:24:53 AM »
Hey, Dan, here's something you might want to look at: http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4540  I have no connection to the guy or Tony, just thought I'd give you a heads up.  Later.

Dave

Offline crazy4salmon

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RE: Hey, Dan, check this out...
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2008, 02:50:15 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Dave. I was about ready to call the gentleman when I notice the SOLD sign at the top of the ad. Dang work got in the way again, just got home a little too late.

Thanks again.

Offline hunter220

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RE: Hey, Dan, check this out...
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 01:17:00 PM »
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crazy4salmon - 10/7/2008  7:50 PM

Thanks for the heads up Dave. I was about ready to call the gentleman when I notice the SOLD sign at the top of the ad. Dang work got in the way again, just got home a little too late.

Thanks again.


So have you decided what you are going to get?

Offline crazy4salmon

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RE: Hey, Dan, check this out...
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2008, 03:52:37 PM »
Hi Larry, funny you should ask tonight. I called the gentleman with the Talon that Dave had spotted on the talon airgun classified site this mourning. He answered and I told him I was just checking to see if the talon was sold. He told me that yes it was sold and that was the end of that.  About four hours he called me back and said that the check had bounced and the other guy didn't have the funds to cover it. If I would still like it, then it was mine. I went to the bank on the way home and got a cashiers check for him.

Kind of scary sending a thousand bucks in good faith to someone you don't really know. Sounds like a real nice guy the two times I have talked to him. I cant wait to get my Talon. I do like the military looks of the gun. The ability to adjust the power, and Anthony from Talon Tunes has worked his magic on it. It comes with lots of extras including the hand pump, and scuba adapter. Both 12 and 18 inch barrels with shrouds for both. Cant wait for that delivery truck to pull up out front, and I haven't even sent the check yet. I am sure he wont send it until my check clears. I hope my Talon will be on its way to Washington state by Monday or Tuesday. Hoping by the end of next week to be holding (shooting) it. You can see pics on Daved's last post. Don't worry Dave if something goes wrong I wont point a finger at you.  I am very happy you pointed it out to me. Thanks  I will let you know when it arrives.

Airguns of Arizona has a used(like new) s410 classic in .22 with a 6x24 Swift with rings and hard case for 695.00. I tried to call them, but no answer= no sale. I cant stand a business that doesn't answer or return your phone call. Just a big part of customer service in my opinion.

Worked out for the better for me anyway. I like the mean look. Those AA and FX rifles are just too pretty for me. They would look out of place in my gnarly concrete construction hands. That FX Whisper sure looks sweet though.