Author Topic: Darkside Advise  (Read 13603 times)

Offline PelletPaul

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Darkside Advise
« on: December 28, 2008, 06:15:13 AM »
I have thinking of going to the Darkside.  I have springers that I love, however I want to be able to shoot 75/100 yards accurately.  I have looked at many PCP's over the last few months and can't decide which one would be best for me.  I don't want to spend half my 401k to get one.  Probably in the area of 500 to 800 dollars.  Now I know that this is the initial cost and when you add accessories probably another 200 to 300 more.  What would the suggestion be for a PCP in my price range?  I really don't like having to get air tanks, compressors, adaptors, pumps etc. but if this is what it takes then so be it.

Thanks in advance,

Paul
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HW97K .20cal.w/Elite 5x15x40 scope

Offline DanoInTx

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Re: Darkside Advise
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2008, 07:27:12 AM »
After owning quite a few PCP's, if I had to do it all over again I would have saved my money and bought an Air Arms S400 or S410 right off the bat!  New they may be just out of your price range, but it would be worth putting a few more dollars together over time and just getting the right gun the first time, also could find one used for inside your price range.  The Air Arms line in my opinion is the best bang for the buck in PCP's.  I've owned guns from Airforce, Career, Sumatra, FX, and BAM and the Air Arms guns are hands down the best value than any of the aforementioned,....although the FX line is also really nice too...ChaChing!!

Just my $0.02
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline hunter220

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RE: Darkside Advise
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2008, 07:31:56 AM »
Quote
PelletPaul - 12/28/2008  11:15 AM

I have thinking of going to the Darkside.  I have springers that I love, however I want to be able to shoot 75/100 yards accurately.  I have looked at many PCP's over the last few months and can't decide which one would be best for me.  I don't want to spend half my 401k to get one.  Probably in the area of 500 to 800 dollars.  Now I know that this is the initial cost and when you add accessories probably another 200 to 300 more.  What would the suggestion be for a PCP in my price range?  I really don't like having to get air tanks, compressors, adaptors, pumps etc. but if this is what it takes then so be it.

Thanks in advance,

Paul


What do you want to use the gun for?  Hunting, plinking, etc.?  If you want a basic hunting rifle, the AF Condor with shroud is your best option.  Very quiet, ample power, extremely accurate.  However, if you want a more traditional looking gun or target shooting, you might want to check out the Air Arms guns, they are very nice.

Offline johnnyi

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RE: Darkside Advise
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2008, 09:47:40 AM »
I going through the same process myself.  I'm looking at the following:

BSA LoneStar.  either 22 or 25 cal.  $595 seems like a great gun for the money...  I dont see anything that has the power or build reputation as the Lonestar in that price range...?  Maybe a BAM50 that has been all reworked with barrel shroud and completely gone through could be a better option?  I believe they are $640 complete.  There just is not anything around me to go and see anything.  It is all read and reread to see what others opinions are....  Difficult to go by opinions as most feel extremely strongly with their purchases.  So I had been trying to find data where the reviewers have experience with a few different models.  

The Airforce models are also in the $500-600ish range, but I prefer the wood stock for myself...

Personally I'm like you wanting something with the best accuracy and build quality, well in that price range that is...  Myself looking for something quiet, powerful and accurate.

The next level up seems to be the BSA Super 10's, AirArms S410, and maybe the Daystate Huntsman.  BSA and AirArms are both in the 1k range.  Daystate is $1300 ish.
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Offline PelletPaul

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RE: Darkside Advise
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2008, 11:31:59 AM »
Thanks for the information.
So if I did decide on something like a Daystate at $1395 by the time I was finished with everything needed to shoot we are probably looking at 18 or 19 hundred?  Or $595 Lonestar probably $1000?  Now is the Daystate going to be that much better in the long run?  This will be a hunter and I like traditional stocks.  Also in a springer (I have a Diana 54) you would need to get tuned?  Would you drop ship to someone like Gene to tune before receiving it or shoot a few thousands rounds first?

Seeking knowledge,

Paul
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HW97K .20cal.w/Elite 5x15x40 scope


Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Darkside Advise
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2008, 12:19:29 PM »
If you are gonna use it for hunting then by an FX Cyclone .22 with synthetic stock. You can carry it around all day long. It is truly the gun for a hunter. The Daystate would be a bit heavier and less forgivable in the woods and brush.
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
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Offline daved

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RE: Darkside Advise
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 12:24:19 PM »
I'm going to have to agree with Dano here.  Like him, I've owned several different PCP's, come to think of it, I've owned a couple of Dan's :-).  Air Force Talon SS was my first PCP, fun little guns but unless you live to tinker with your air guns, it wouldn't be my first choice.  Had a B50 (one of Dan's), which is a Chinese copy of the Daystate Huntsman.  Good rifle, but if you go that route, get it pre-tuned from Big Ed.  Dan did that the second time around with his second Chuntsman, worth noting that he recently sold it.  If your budget could handle a Daystate, I'd look hard at the FX line.  I think my Cyclone is just about a perfect rifle :-), look around for some of my posts on it.  My other PCP is an Air Arms, an older S400E.  That's the single shot, bolt action, fixed power model.  Great rifle, but I'm planning on keeping the Cyclone and selling the Air Arms.  All that said, the S410 would be an excellent choice, and they're frequently available used at good prices.  Being a repeater is a really nice feature, and they have outstanding triggers.  For long range, you'd probably be better off with a .22, the .177's just don't carry that well for long range.  Don't know anything about the BSA's, but Peakchick thinks highly of them, and I'd trust her opinions.  Good luck, and keep us posted on your decision.  Later.

Dave

Offline PelletPaul

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Re: Darkside Advise
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 12:59:39 PM »
WOW!  What a choice.  How much faith do you have in the reviews of these guns?
johnnyi what did you decide on?
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Offline melloroadman

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Re: Darkside Advise
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 01:36:15 PM »
Paul if you are talking about the reviews and articles on the P.A. site they are good . I do assume you read the articles that are on the rifles as well . The Korean rifles are very good and accurate as well . I really looked at them before I bought my Condor but the flexibility of the Condor got my money . I got over the looks real quick once I saw what it would do . But That's me not you and the Korean rifles did not take a big price increase this year like the British makes did . They are all good rifles it just depends on your personal taste and needs .Marvin

Offline johnnyi

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Re: Darkside Advise
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2008, 02:08:55 PM »
Hi Paul.

I'm as you still gathering data to try to make an informed decision.  $500-$1000 is wwwwaaaaay more than I have even thought I would even consider for an air rifle, but here I am :D   I have watched the videos on AoA as well as the reviews on Pyramid.  Even been watching some of the videos on Utube.  I just sold a springer and collected some gift cards.  So now reviewing the best options.  Watch those videos on AoA for the Daystate Huntsman and the BSA Lonestar.

My list of importance is:  Accuracy /trigger, Quiet, Power, and quality build.  I was about a week or so ago even when I got my springers tuned already thinking of these PCP guns for my desire to have super accuracy and power.  I know you can get pretty darn good with the springers that have been tuned.  I did keep my Turbo Tuned Beeman Webley Vulcan, Of course i will never get rid of that gun.  Long history and just love it for the challenge.

The BSA Lonestar seems like you are getting a lot for the money compared to the others, but again I can only see what I can find on here and the other websites as I have nothing available locally to put my hands on anything around here.  I sure wish I could feel the triggers on the Longstar, Huntsman and even those FX rifles that are being suggested here.  Those look like fine products.  But if I can get there with a Lonestar, tune the trigger and add a barrel shroud, that could be the favorite...??  Of coure I have heard good things about the Tuned BAM with all the customizations done to it.  

Good luck, keep in touch with your decision.  I'm not going to rush this one, I'm trying to collect all the info that I can.  ;)
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Offline spark22

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Re: Darkside Advise
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2008, 02:10:29 PM »
I have a disco in 22 cal it's a great gun and will shot out to a 100yrds accurately but I'm looking for better like the styer 110hp, but I think my next pcp will be a bsa ultra  or supperten mk3 with a bullbarrel for plinking in the back yard.Then maybe the bsa lonestar for hunting some of the local yotes but  I realy need somthing quite for inercity hunting like a condor with a full shroud.There are so many choices it makes me nuts!
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Offline hunter220

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RE: Darkside Advise
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2008, 02:47:22 PM »
If your looking for a quiet rifle, the AF Condor with shroud is your best choice.  I have shot the Air Arms gun and my AF condor with shroud is quite a bit quieter on full power, let alone when the power is dialed down.  Seriously, you can't hear the gun from more the 50 feet away.  A condor tuned by Anthony from talontunes.com will be just as good as the Air arms and will be about the same price, while having about twice the power.  Just something to think about.

Offline MikeX2

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Go for the Lonestar
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2008, 05:18:45 PM »
I recently bought the Lonestar. Really nice gun right out of the box. No need to play with the trigger at all. Its a little loud, but the power is all you want for hunting small game. It sends Gamo match pellets (14.2gr) 960-980fps (30+fpe) consistently (a few +1000fps now and then). Any more power than that and you'll be tearing right through game without letting the pellet expand and break up. As far as accuracy goes, its just as good as my Disco, consisent 1/2" groups @ 35yrds. Again, more than adequate for any small game hunting. Ok, now the bad news...if you don't want to go for the scuba tank and accessories you'll need a hand pump. This will also run you in the neighborhood of $200. I suggest the tank and accessories because after 150 or so pumps (which is what you need to get it up to 232bar) you'll be ready for a nap. The tank and accessories won't cost too much more than the hand pump. Go for it. For about $850.00 it will be the last gun you buy for quite some time.

Have anymore questions message me...

Have fun with whatever you decide on!!

Mikex2


Offline DanoInTx

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Re: Darkside Advise
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2008, 07:43:34 PM »
I had two BAM50/51, they can be tuned to shoot real well and the triggers aren't half bad.  The B50 has a nearly impossible stock, it just isn't designed to fit a human in my opinion.  I'm 6' tall and cut a full inch off the stock on my B50 and it was still too bulky.  The B51 stock was much better, actually it was great, but if you plan on carrying it in the field you'd better be strong, they are a big gun.  With a good tune they can crank out plenty of power in .22 for small game, but they are not powerhouses, wouldn't be my first pick for a hunter.  If you go this route talk to Big Ed and get one tuned, it will save you ALOT of heartache, trust me on this.  Many of them leak right out of the box and most need a barrel recrown before you see any great accuracy, Big Ed takes all of the risk out of buying a new gun and his tune price is VERY reasonable.  I think I paid around $400 for a full tuned B51 shipped, then got a shroud from Mountain Air and was a really happy camper...until I needed to sell so I could buy something else...doh!

The Korean guns are real powerhouses and you get ALOT of gun for what you pay, the downside is that if you get the long gun versions they are really long and pretty heavy too, btw they are also really loud at hunting power and tough to shroud.  I had a Sumatra Carbine and it was pretty handy and plenty powerfull, and it's a repeater which is nice for quick followup shots.  The Korean guns also have huge air resevoirs and eat air, you aren't going to want to pump them for long, a SCUBA setup would make more sense in for those guns.  I didn't care for the triggers on either of my Korean guns, the Sumatra and Career both had triggers designed by lawyers in my opinion, need a strong trigger finger.  

DaveD is right about the FX line, I owned a Black Widow that was a really nice gun and have shot Dave's Cyclone.  The Cyclone is a sweet gun and there isn't much to not like except maybe the price and the synthetic stock.  The build quality on the FX guns is top notch.  I think Gene really likes his Cyclone as well:)

Never owned a Daystate, want one real bad though, but Gene is right, they are really pretty to be carrying through the brush....don't think they make the Huntsman anymore btw, but I see them on the classifieds over on the Yellow every so often.  

Had an Airforce TalonSS and for power they are pretty tough to beat except by the Korean guns.  The triggers are mushy, but with some work can be made "ok".  The real setback with those guns (Talon, SS, Condor alike) is the tank/stock.  Using the bottle as the stock equates to a really high comb which tends to make your neck bend like a giraffe to shoot it (thing gave me a heck of a headache).  I loved to tinker with my SS, but at some point I just wanted to shoot and decided to sell it so I could shoot more and tinker less.  They shoot ok out of the box, but really need a bit of work to reach their full potential.  They are US made though, right here in Fort Worth TX actually:)  

Never shot a Disco, but doesn't look like a bad deal for someone just wanting to put one foot in the water with PCP's.  

I already expressed my feelings towards the Air Arms guns above, I think they are a great bang for your buck.  I've seen used guns from $500 for a single shot S400 upto $650 for a multishot S410, if you buy new they are quite a bit more expensive, and the newer side lever actions will run more even used.  I paid $500 shipped for my S400 carbine 12fpe gun, but I see FAC guns going for the same price if you watch the classifieds long enough.  I also have an Air Arms S200 which I really like, but it is also a 12fpe gun and doesn't have much power for hunting more than real small game.  

I know little or nothing about the BSA PCP guns except that I shot a Super10 once which seemed like a nice gun, although they all seem to have really high fill pressures...., but I don't know if a lower fill upsets their performance at all.  Most people that own them really like them, I had a BSA Superstar and the build quality of that gun was top notch, so I would suppose the build would carry on with their PCP's.

Lots of stuff to think about, and honestly there is no "perfect gun", there's just guns that are good for one thing or another.  We could all go around and around saying which gun is the best, but really the best gun is the one you want the most at the time:)
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008